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Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: -----but I imagine that I would at least inform each House of Parliament what it was that the Government had agreed. That is all I am asking for.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I move amendment No. 2: In page 9, lines 10 and 11, to delete "in relation to a political matter or matter of Government policy" and substitute "in relation to a matter of political controversy". This proposal is to delete the words "in relation to a political matter or matter of Government policy" and substitute "in relation to a matter of political controversy". The relevant section,...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Unknowable.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: With respect, that means that somebody who is not a member of such an organisation cannot comment even on his or her organisation in public statements. If RACO says it opposes X, Y and Z, and that is permitted under section 24, 2A and 3A, it means that somebody else in the Defence Forces cannot even publicly disagree with his or her own representative organisation on the matter because he or...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Yes, but, as I see it, the amendments made by section 24 of this Bill accord to members of a representative organisation the right to publicly articulate, in good faith, a position which could be a matter of public policy or not, but which concerns the activities of that representative organisation. What worries me is, the right to comment or to contradict that is taken away from individual...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: He would not be a member. A person who is not a member or a spokesman of the organisation would not have that standing.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: That is fine at a general meeting, but if people are listening to what goes on the RTÉ Radio 1 “Morning Ireland” programme, they cannot comment in response. Going to a general meeting is a different matter, and waiting for that to be convened. If you are a member of the Defence Forces and a representative organisation says something about a political matter or Government...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Yes, and can claim to represent its members.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: No, but as I read what the Minister is proposing, somebody on behalf of a representative body is entitled to comment on the proper subject matter of the things that that representative association gets involved in, such as service conditions, accommodation, pensions, you name it. If they do so in public, the consequences of this amendment that we are now proposing, is that an individual...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I take it that the Tánaiste will confirm that these restrictions only apply to members of the permanent Defence Forces and do not apply to reservists. I think that is the case, although the number of reservists has dwindled to practically none.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I will believe that when I see it. It is interesting that reservists seem to be in a position to attend marches and parades in uniform whereas others are not. This section needs to be thought out again. It is strange that reservists could do the things set out in paragraph (a) of this new subsection while permanent members of the Defence Forces cannot.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Yes, and we all know that the Leader of this House, Senator Chambers, was a member of the Reserve Defence Forces.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: She was in no way inhibited by that status from being a political person, and a very fine one. Will the Tánaiste confirm that none of this applies to reservists?

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Are they then deemed to be members of the permanent Defence Forces?

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Subsection (g) of the new section 2A states that a representative association may not: (g) without prejudice to the purpose of an association of representing members— (i) make a public statement or comment concerning a political matter or matter of Government policy Someone who does not like the stance of his or her representative organisation is gagged because he or she...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I move amendment No. 3: In page 9, line 11, to delete “or matter of Government policy”.

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I will not delay the House much longer on this matter. I believe the phraseology of subparagraphs (b) and (c) is very vague: "political ... society" and "address a meeting of a political ... society". Could a person speak in private to a society? What is a political society? The language is unnecessarily vague. On Report Stage, some effort should be made to add extra definition to these...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I am totally in favour of drug testing and a drugs-free Defence Forces, so what I am about to say should not be taken as being in any way negative. It is proposed that the Minister should be able to make regulations in this regard. Subsection (2)(a) states that the Minister should be able to determine specified concentrations in samples. I wonder about that. A person can have controlled...

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: Two points arise from that. I forgot to mention subparagraph (i), which refers to "the concentration of a controlled drug or psychoactive substance required to be present to yield a positive result in a sample". That is a quantitative decision to be made. Will it be the same as the Road Traffic Act or will it be something-----

Seanad: Defence (Amendment) Bill 2024: Committee Stage (3 Jul 2024)

Michael McDowell: I do not believe that this is particularly the case. For instance, under the road traffic legislation, the mere fact that a person may have a controlled drug like a steroid in his or her bloodstream does not automatically mean that he or she is committing an offence. These matters are provided for by statute. The point that worries me somewhat is a very simple one. When I was Minister for...

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