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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is not; he is abusive.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Is Deputy Catherine Murphy in a party?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: It is not my business what happens within Fine Gael.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: It is certainly not the business of this committee.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Please, Vice Chairman.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I fully understand the sincerity of the views expressed. I do not say that in any light fashion, but I happen to have a different view which is honestly held. I ask members to simply respect that there can be a different perspective honestly held. Deputy Lucinda Creighton made an impassioned contribution. Starting off with my characterisation of a snapshot, there has to be legitimacy...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Of course they cannot vote because the proportionality has to be reflected. It would be bizarre if whoever turned up could form the majority.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: That would-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I will stop talking if I am going to be shouted down.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I listened respectfully to people's contributions. I honestly did.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Yes.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: In terms of access to committees, it is clear that any Member can turn up and speak. However, the vote must determine the composition of the Parliament so it would be fundamentally undemocratic if it did not. In terms of access to speaking time, there is a much larger complaint from the large parliamentary parties - the Labour Party and Fine Gael - where backbenchers do not get speaking...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: Until such time as the people speak again, the mandate of this Parliament and this Government will continue. Deputy Terence Flanagan asked a very direct question about legal advice. By way of convention, I will explain. It is not possible for a member of Government to present legislation to the Oireachtas without being advised by the Attorney General that it is fully compliant with the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I accept that the amendment to that is a political judgment. I do not know whether the amendment is constitutional or not. I am not accepting it. I am saying that the law as drafted is constitutional in the view of the Attorney General and the Government. Deputy Naughten again talks in terms of parties or individuals. It is a fairly fundamental philosophical discussion. We organise our...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: I do not accept that.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy should stick to the Bill.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: We have had a very wide-ranging discussion that goes well beyond the scope of not just the amendment, but of the Bill. I will respond as best I can. Deputy Sean Fleming spoke about a dissolution as mentioned in section 12. It is plainly the fact that the will of the people as determined in a general election cannot be fulfilled where the party ceases to exist. We cannot pay for the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: If we determined that there was a different Government, we could not give the parliamentary support for the Opposition to the Government, and the parliamentary support for the Government to the Opposition when that had changed. It seems reasonable and logical that this would be the outcome of that very unusual - I believe unprecedented - change within a Parliament. The Deputy made a...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: We have debated the issue at length on Second Stage. My view is clear. Others have a different view, and that is perfectly good too.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Oireachtas (Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices) (Amendment) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (27 Feb 2014)

Brendan Howlin: The Deputy is not right in saying it was reflected from the start; it was not. For most of the operation of this system, the Government and the Opposition were supported equally. In 1996 the then Minister, Deputy RuairĂ­ Quinn, determined to rebalance the system when in government. There was no enthusiasm on the part of Deputy Sean Fleming's party in advance of 1996 to make the...

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