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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, it is.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I shall talk to the Chairman outside about this.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: This section relates to internal review. One of my requests has been the subject of such a review and in fairness to the person who wrote the review, it was fine and thorough. It should not be charged for, but we will get to that issue later. Two of the committee's recommendations are tangentially related to this issue. The first was that a user group be set up to review the operation of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Great. What about the second recommendation in respect of having an internal version called an oversight group?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: The advantage of an oversight group which would not replace the need for Oireachtas oversight, as an internal working group, is it would allow officialdom to review how the regime was working and to continuously improve, share best practice and so forth. Is there an ongoing review in that regard?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Will it be an internal network of officials?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: When I refer to users, I mean requesters.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I welcome the change, as I was concerned about amendment No. 53. To clarify, if somebody submits a freedom of information request and the estimated or actual cost is €2,000, the request will go ahead, notwithstanding issues around vexations etc., and the requester would be charged a maximum of €500.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Minister. He is withdrawing this substantial amendment, which has probably received the most commentary over recent days. The paragraph he refers to is 27(13)(c), which states: if the requester does not amend or limit the request such that the charges that arise or are likely to arise under subsection (2) are reduced to an amount less than or equal to the amount prescribed under...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Will any other changes be made to the amendment?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: My understanding of the Minister's intention is that this is the only change being made. The amendment lays out the fees regime.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: It is reasonable for us to engage in the rest of the amendment and the issues it raises.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: May I ask a procedural question? That is fine if we can engage in Committee Stage.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Or now.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: We could do it now. I am going to be discussing the amendment as it stands but without the paragraph described by the Minister. That is section 17(13)(c), although there may be other bits and pieces. I and others disagree with an upfront fee for a variety of reasons. The Minister has indicated two reasons to the committee for having a fee regime. The first is that in the current...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I thank the Minister. The first issue is cost, which comprises two separate aspects. The first is an issue of principle which says that as one is availing of a public service, it is reasonable that one contributes to the cost of or pays for the service. I contend that such a measure amounts to double taxation because we will already have paid for the service through taxes. One would not...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Yes, TASC.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: It is unacceptable to propose a fee structure for a service such as freedom of information without knowing how much money will be generated or how much its administration will cost.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: Really?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Freedom of Information Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (13 Nov 2013)

Stephen Donnelly: I suggest that the Minister take the current volume, apply the new fee structure, multiply the first figure by the second one and add. I am not being smart, but one can estimate the projected revenue.

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