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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 89: In page 95, line 32, after “transaction,” to insert “and”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 90: In page 97, line 17, to delete “section 811C(6)” and substitute “paragraphs (a), (b) and (c) of section 811C(6)”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I move amendment No. 91: In page 97, lines 32 to 37, to delete all words from and including “and” in line 32 down to and including line 37 and substitute the following:“and— (i) commences carrying out enquiries as if section 811C(6)(a) applied, a taxpayer who is aggrieved by such enquiries, on the grounds that the person considers that the officer was precludedfrom...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: There is a middle ground. It is not as the Deputy states. The Revenue Commissioners advise us to take the middle ground. Moving the proposal to delete the settlement incentive for older tax avoidance cases is the issue. The Minister of State at the Department of Finance, Deputy Harris, made clear during the Second Stage debate that the Revenue Commissioners are challenging a significant...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: A total of 80% of the penalty interest due on the tax outstanding must be paid, as well as the tax. The tax must be paid in full and 80% of the interest. Only 20% does not have to be paid. It is strictly time measured. The purpose of it is to enable the Revenue Commissioners to take a proceeding successfully against people for tax evasion through tax avoidance measures.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: The Deputy is missing the point that tax avoidance is not illegal. These people are involved in tax avoidance schemes. They are not involved in tax evasion schemes. In several cases the Revenue Commissioners have challenged the legality of tax avoidance schemes. The people involved in the tax avoidance schemes are prepared to take the Revenue Commissioners to court to prove that the tax...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: The surcharge issue as an incentive has not worked. That is why the people who, in the opinion of the Revenue Commissioners, are involved in tax avoidance schemes are prepared to go the whole way to the Supreme Court. It is a doubtful proposition that doubling the surcharge would be an added incentive. Much of the time these people are playing for time. They get a lot of time if they go...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: First, it is not a get out of jail card because jail is not one of the punishments. The punishments are specified under tax law, as described by Deputy Doherty, and that is what would apply. People do not go to jail at the end of the process. It is tax avoidance; it is not tax evasion. There is an international industry active in this city where tax advisers explore the possibility of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Revenue is not involved in the collection of water charges.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Revenue is not involved in the collection of water charges and neither is the Department of Finance, as a matter of fact. Is the Deputy saying it is a tax, a levy or it is too much?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Is it?

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I thought the Deputy said last week that it was not a tax.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: I never negotiate with Revenue. That would be improper.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: There have been several days out in court. Sometimes, Revenue wins. Sometimes, it loses. There is no reluctance to proceed in court. The cases do not often get highlighted in the media.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Some 8% per annum.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: It was 20%, but is being increased to 30%.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: My understanding is that it has discretion up to a certain point in the process.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Under the scheme set out in the Act, there is a graduated range of penalties that depends on the seriousness of the transgression. There are also differences between people who disclose voluntarily and those who are discovered by Revenue's audits.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: Revenue has a code of practice for dealing with penalties and interest rates and allows for discretion within that code. We can get the Deputy a copy of it.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Finance Bill 2014: Committee Stage (Resumed) (19 Nov 2014)

Michael Noonan: It is on the website.

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