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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I believe it is appropriate that the High Court judge be given all of the information and documentation in this case. I am conscious that Verrimus itself issued a statement, in which I had no hand or part, stating it was not in a position to make public comment on this. I could not answer questions put to me by this committee without referencing the information available to me that I have...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Perhaps you will do me the courtesy of letting me conclude. I intend to furnish these reports to the High Court judge. Let him make of them what is appropriate in the context of the technical expertise he has. I understand Verrimus has said it is willing to answer any questions raised of the High Court judge. Rits will do the same. GSOC has said it will co-operate with the review.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I may be wrong in this because I am probably getting a little tired. It has been a very long afternoon. I think I am right in recalling that when the GSOC representatives were here, they said that for security reasons, they would not release the Verrimus report. If not for the extraordinary circumstances that have arisen here, as I said in the Dáil, I would not have gone into even the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I cannot solve that difficulty.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I wish to point out that the reference to each of the vulnerabilities and anomalies throughout this meeting, except in one respect which I will mention, comes from the briefing I distributed to members that I received from GSOC. I have not gone into all the technical information in the Verrimus report. The only thing I have added in the context of that report and which I think is reflected...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: At this point, GSOC certainly does not want the full security report released. It has told the committee that. There is information contained in the report produced by Rits which is directly derived from the Verrimus report, which would put some of the Verrimus information into the public domain. I cannot solve the committee's issue with this because I will be giving all of these reports...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: What we can probably do is provide a document that summarises the differences if that is what the Chairman is looking for.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: What we cannot do is release the totality of the Verrimus and Rits reports. In the context of just summarising the differences between them, I do not see a difficulty with that. The committee would have a difficulty, as have I, with determining which version is accurate and correct and which one has the relevant knowledge and understanding of all of this. That is something that is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I will ask my officials to see whether something can be drafted that just summarises the differentiation between the two reports to be of assistance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: In respect of the last aspect, I do not think we need an elaborate and expensive inquiry. I expect that anyone the judge wishes to co-operate will co-operate. I think that answers the first part of the question. I think the Garda Commissioner has publicly stated that he would co-operate should he be required to in any shape or form. Of course I would co-operate. One of the initial things...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Deputy will see the terms of reference when they are published but they are about this issue. They are not about what the Deputy is looking for, which is some sort of political hanging.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: It is quite simple because the Deputy likes to make a mystery of it. There is no authorised surveillance of GSOC of any description.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: By anybody. Why would there be authorised surveillance of GSOC? We are in the realms of total fantasy at this stage.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: It would be great if we could get away from fiction and get down to reality.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: There is no authorised surveillance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I am not sure whether I can speak on behalf of the Revenue Commissioners but I have absolutely no idea why the Revenue Commissioners would be authorising surveillance of GSOC.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The answer is "Yes".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No, I have not asked the Defence Forces whether they have been bugging GSOC because there is no possibility that they have been doing so. I know it is a narrative to which the Deputy is very attached.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes. There is a process with which the Deputy may be familiar whereby there is oversight by a High Court judge of certain types of surveillance.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Garda Commissioner publicly-----

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