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Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 88: In page 11, to delete lines 36 to 39, and in page 12, to delete lines 1 to 3 and substitute the following: "(9) The Government shall submit the draft of the climate action plan submitted to them under subsection (4) or a national long term climate action strategy submitted to them under subsection (7) for the approval of each House of the Oireachtas before it is...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I am glad the Minister brought up the carbon budget, which I intended to address at a later stage but I will address it now. I fully accept this is a very complex structure. I also fully accept and do not dispute there are various elements of consultation involved in it with the Climate Change Advisory Council, the committee, the public and so forth. However, the only ratification role...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: Does the Minister wish to respond or is he is he happy to keep it as it is?

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: We will be dealing with this at a later stage and I will not dwell on it now. I would ask the Minister to reconsider it. I will withdraw the amendment with leave to reintroduce it on Report Stage.

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: Section 6 refers to carbon leakage and I ask the Minister of State to correct me if I am wrong but there is no definition of carbon leakage. Having the phrase "carbon leakage" in the legislation without a definition is pointless and is only lip service. This is a very complex and serious area. A lot of the efforts that we make here in Ireland will count for nothing unless we fully account...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: Can the Minister of State point out exactly where in the Bill carbon leakage is defined? Perhaps I am missing it.

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: That is grand. It was my mistake, I misread it. I thank the Minister of State.

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: Chair, I am not disputing your adjudication. There is a broader issue. Deputy Sherlock is correct in relation to that. I am not going to get involved on your ruling. One of the sentences that you read out was that the Bill does not have a role in setting the sectoral targets. Did I hear correctly? Is that what you said? This is the only time that the Oireachtas will be involved in...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I will speak to my amendment No. 111. It comes back to the issue of biogenic methane we discussed last week. Again, I am not looking for agriculture to be given a free pass in this legislation but I am looking for a separate and distinct target for biogenic methane. As I said last week, I am not referring to the issue of nitrous oxide but specifically to biogenic methane. Substantial...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: To pick up from where Deputy Bruton left off, I agree 100% with what he said. I have a fundamental issue with this Bill. I agree with the principle of the Bill but my fundamental difficultly is that we do not know how this will be measured, even though we are going to enact the legislation. We set the target for 2030 but we do not know how that will be measured over that period. Deputy...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: Before the Chairman moves on, I note that amendment No. 117 is grouped with amendment No. 125, which I tabled and on which I wish to speak.

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I will be brief. Amendment No. 125 provides that the second carbon budget would be formally presented to the Oireachtas. As the legislation is currently drafted, the first carbon budget and the draft third carbon budget will be presented and the Oireachtas will have the opportunity to accept or reject those budgets. If they are rejected, the Minister can, within 60 days, bring in whatever...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: To respond to the Minister of State, he is correct, and it is accurate, to state that the Executive is responsible for operational actions. I am not disputing that point. However, setting the overall budget on a five-yearly basis and setting sectoral targets are not operational actions. Those are matters of policy and they should be agreed and ratified by-----

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: That is perfect.

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: The point I was making is that the Executive is responsible for operational actions. I do not dispute that point with the Minister of State at all. Setting an overall budget on a five-yearly basis in respect of our overall carbon emissions and setting sectoral targets, however, are not operational actions and cannot be considered as such. Such matters should be ratified and approved by...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: In response to the points raised by Deputy Bruton and the Minister of State, I absolutely agree with Deputy Bruton that we need to listen to the science and we need to hold Ministers to account. This legislation does provide for that. I am not disputing that. At the outset, I stated that this is important legislation. I do not disagree with the principle of it. However, science is not...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 125: In page 15, to delete lines 32 to 40, and in page 16, to delete lines 1 to 40 and substitute the following: "(6) The Government shall submit the draft carbon budget submitted to them under subsection (1)(d) for the approval of each House of the Oireachtas before it is published. (7) This section applies to the first and second carbon budget programmes and to an...

Select Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment: Climate Action and Low Carbon Development (Amendment) Bill 2021: Committee Stage (Resumed) (9 Jun 2021)

Denis Naughten: I wish to discuss my amendments Nos. 159, 163 and 164. Amendment No. 165 is related. I know it is not grouped with the other amendments. I will withdraw amendment No. 165. I will speak to the whole lot together. This comes back to the argument we had earlier about carbon budgets. While there may be some justification for the Minister of State's argument on the carbon budgets, I...

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