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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Senator was asking me about the format. There have been a number of occasions in the past where issues required an independent assessment and previous governments asked either senior counsel or members of the Judiciary or retired members to prepare a report of a similar nature to this particular report being sought.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I can arrange for one of my Ministers of State to take my place. It is desirable that we complete this process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The Chairman may proceed on the assumption that we can arrange that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I am happy to proceed without delay. It is important we bring this process to a conclusion.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I am anxious that we should complete the process and allow members to ask whatever questions they want to ask.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I do not find the question at all funny. I am in a position where I get beaten up if I do and I get beaten up if I do not. Questions were put to me, to which members expected me to respond, about my engagement with GSOC, the meetings I have had, and whether I had reservations about any particular matters. I truthfully replied to those questions. If I had taken the position that I did not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: The DPP is entirely different because it has no statutory reporting obligations to the Minister for Justice and Equality. GSOC, on the other hand, does.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: There are no exceptions in regard to the DPP. I am not suggesting the Senator would do this, but it has suited some parties to muddy the waters by asking why, if it is an independent body, should GSOC have to say anything to the Minister. The answer is very simple. The Garda Síochána Act 2005, which was enacted by the Senator's party in government, imposed an express obligation...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I cannot answer questions relating to an inquiry into Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No, I did not, because it did not arise. Simon O'Brien spent two hours with me and my two officials explaining the background to the matter, as also detailed in the brief. The background was that there was no evidence of Garda misconduct and no definitive evidence of surveillance. There was no issue that required me to have a conversation with the Garda Commissioner.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I do not think I have talked to the Garda Commissioner about it. The Commissioner issued a statement in response to GSOC's press release on the Monday evening. I first saw that statement after it was issued, because the Garda Commissioner is independent. The next event that happened was that Mr. O'Brien reported to the committee. The following day, as I understand, the Garda Commissioner...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: We were both asked extensively by members of the media-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I believe we had some conversation about all of the controversy that was going on, but it was not an engagement where I went into any detail with him about these matters. We had an engagement with the media and we were both asked questions about the issue. In the context of the way events developed and matters were reported, when I met him I had not had an opportunity to read all of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I genuinely cannot answer that question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: No. This is one of the reasons I have referred the matter to a High Court judge. The Cabinet has agreed that we should do so. I cannot adjudicate between the two of them. I am not shooting at Verrimus and singing the praises of Rits, I am just pointing out that there is a very substantial variation in the conclusions reached.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Absolutely true. Rits was given all of the material and asked to carry out a peer review. The Senator would be familiar with peer reviews-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: -----how they are conducted and what happens. I repeat that I am not adjudicating between these two. It is a matter now for a High Court judge to consider in order to ascertain whether there are inaccuracies and whether, perhaps, things were said that gave rise to misunderstandings. I cannot adjudicate on them. I do not have the technical knowledge to adjudicate. It would be completely...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: I am also not shooting at anybody. It was the conclusion of Verrimus, not Rits, on the Wi-Fi that has given rise to so much conversation and coverage. It was Verrimus which ultimately determined that it was an anomaly, that it was not really a threat and, for some unexplained reason, that some sort of random linking in was occurring from another premises. Verrimus did not identify the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Security and Surveillance Issues: Minister for Justice and Equality (19 Feb 2014)

Alan Shatter: Yes, but obviously there are differences between them. What is the old saying? Is it that experts differ? I do not know. They say it about doctors and that it can have fatal consequences.

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