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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: We discovered this on Tuesday. This is the situation we are in for now. We will have to contact the Department, the Minister and the Secretary General if there is a problem with getting engagement with IFI. Engagement has to happen and we will endeavour to have the organisation here as soon as possible.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: The committee is unanimous on this. We will endeavour to do so as quickly as possible. The public business before us this morning is as follows: minutes, accounts and financial statements, correspondence, work programme and any other business. The first item of business is the minutes of our meetings of 27 and 29 February 2024, which have been circulated to members. Do members wish...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Do any members wish to come in on those?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: On the non-compliant procurement it is about 11% of the total non-pay spending. That is very high. Non-pay expenditure is €225 million. Non-compliant procurement is €26.4 million. What is the status of Beaumont hospital? Is it a voluntary hospital? Where is it in the hospital system?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Of those five, if we accept that in a hospital there will be some procurement that will not be tendered because of specialties or the special nature of the goods or services that they are getting, or timelines etc., would that 11% non-compliance be excessive?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: What would it normally be?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: It is there or thereabouts, around 11% of non-pay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: We should follow up on that. Not to take away from the fact that in a hospital, by its nature, there will be a significant portion of goods that will not go through the normal procurement, but we should follow up with that. Do any other members wish to come in on the accounts and financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Do we know how many people, how many staff-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Could I make a suggestion? It seems Mr. McCarthy is saying is that from memory there are five individuals at senior level in the hospital involved in the overpayments. So, to draw this together-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: I suggest we write to Beaumont requesting detail on how many individuals were involved over what period of time exactly, what grade of staff they are and what amount was paid to each position. Is that agreed? Agreed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: We should write to the hospital in any event.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: We will seek information on the period during which this went on; the number of individuals involved; their grade; how much was paid for each post; and how much has been retrieved.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Financial management also has implications for the overall running of the hospital. We can include that, the issue of the non-compliant procurement of roughly 11% of the non-pay expenditure and a breakdown of what kind of services and goods were procured, how much and who was invoiced for it. Is that agreed? Agreed. I wish to note that Deputy Colm Burke is attending this meeting...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: I first heard of the issue around PFAS when it came before the committee a number of weeks ago. It is used for firefighting foam and, obviously, it is a requirement at the airport. However, in the letter it states that the European Environment Agency outlines that PFAS are used across a variety of consumer products. As the Deputy mentioned, the EPA and Fingal County Council are the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: While there is some information in the letter, if the Deputy is proposing that, then I think that is the direction to go.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: What is the question the Deputy proposes to put to the EPA?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Okay, there are two proposals. One, that the committee write to the Department with the questions-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: Sorry, the DAA. We will write to the DAA with the question that Deputy McAuliffe proposed. However, I think that is a question that must go to the Department as well. That is who I had in mind. We can put it to the DAA and to the Department. Second, there is a proposal from Deputy Catherine Murphy that the committee write to the EPA around its oversight, role and involvement on this...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (7 Mar 2024)

Brian Stanley: It is probably a necessary evil.

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