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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: So it is the ECB, then, that we should be asking whether it is proud of these banks and the fact that they hold licences. Is that correct? Or is it the Central Bank?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Okay. If I go into a licensed premises and drink after hours, I will be in court and fined for breach of the licensing laws. If I go into a shop and steal a pair of socks, I probably will be in court the following Tuesday. I have the newspapers in front of me and can give the witnesses a sample of the headlines about the banks: "Tracker Scandal Litany of Shame", and "Why Nobody Will Stand...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Is that not what the banks did? They took people's money fraudulently. The banks made people pay back money to them for which they were not entitled to ask. On request, they did not return that money. After a number of years, we could describe it as the bank stealing the money from the people and not returning it. Is that not the basic position? It is not a question of legislation,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: We do not need Professor Lane to tell us that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: It is how we are dealing with the scandal that worries me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: That does not make it right.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: No, it does not. Professor Lane has to understand this. I am tired of listening to the Central Bank telling us all of these things. I understand them. I understand Ms Rowland's difficulties in respect of the law and everything else. The fact of the matter, however, is that when one goes back to it, these banks did wrong by their customers, before 2013 and after. They went to the courts...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: If I was a customer I would like to hear that, but do I believe it? No, I do not. I will tell Professor Lane why. Some of the banks which have appeared before the committee told us that customers would not be paid until next year, perhaps even late next year. One bank brazenly told us that it would not meet the deadlines. Its representatives sat there and told us that the bank would not...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Is it not obvious, however, that something was going on here when they all suddenly arrived at this point in respect of their trackers? I mean-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: These are the questions which people in the street ask me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: That does not justify it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Therefore, it was a collective theft from the Irish people by the banks. It was a fraud. It was all sorts of thing which can be described within the law, yet they seem to get away with it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Did the Central Bank talk to the auditors?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Do the witnesses know if the Central Bank had spoken to the auditors of these banks or to professionals? This is just to see if these highly educated, well-paid people came across evidence at an early stage to make them think there was something wrong and they ought to report it. Do the witnesses feel this should have been reported?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: These are the same auditors who were there when the banks went bust.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Who audits the governance compliance within the banks? Who would the Central Bank expect to have seen this issue? Who would it have expected to have reported on the issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Did the Central Bank ask them? Does it have any formal reports from the banks to say that it is short of governance here?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Did the Central Bank raise it with the auditors? Did they tick any box? It is amazing, if a customer ticks the wrong box on this tracker issue, one is penalised - we heard the case of one woman who ticked the wrong box - but if the bank ticks the wrong box, that seems to be okay. Did the auditors report anything to the Central Bank about governance or did the Central Bank ask them anything...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: Has the Central Bank any message for the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance before they meet the banks? Is there anything it would like to say to them with regard to legislation for the future or for the present that the Central Bank has come across and that might be short in respect of giving the Central Bank some muscle to deal with these people?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Engagement with the Central Bank of Ireland (19 Oct 2017)

John McGuinness: We understand that.

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