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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Does it not depend on what they paid for the loan?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: I know that is a technical issue. What I am trying to tease out here is the endgame as to where all of this goes. Around Dublin I have seen that professional advisers have lists of loans and are offering them to people who they think may be interested in buying these loans. It is not the loans that are being marketed. It is the property behind the loan. It could be land, commercial...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: In a case where a family home mortgage is purchased by a fund and one's mortgage has 15 years to run, is there any scenario in which that fund will be accepting one's final mortgage payment in 15 years time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: That is the point. Is it appropriate that an institution with a very short-term investment horizon is buying long-term financial products that may have 15 or 20 years left in them? Such an institution would have no interest in working out those mortgages over the full duration of the contract. Something has to give in that scenario.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Dr. O'Hagan-Luff mentioned the issue of securitisation in the context of Lone Star, which securitised loans that originated with Irish Nationwide. I ask her to explain the impact of securitisation, the benefit for the bank and where the ownership of the loan resides. Where does the beneficial ownership lie and who is making the day-to-day decisions on the work-out or management of that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Who owns the loan when it is securitised?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: In both scenarios, does the bank continue to service the loan and make decisions on it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Who is the borrower's contact in that scenario?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: I thank Dr. O'Hagan-Luff. I will move on. We have heard Mr. Burgess's critique of the existing system but I ask him to be clear about what he is advocating. What change is he asking for? Does he want changes to the court process? In the examples he cited, orders were granted in only two cases. Is there a reluctance on the part of judges to issue repossession orders? Is there an issue...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Yes, but Mr. Burgess is also saying that he wants to see 10,000 repossessions. How-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: What does this new system look like? Is Mr. Burgess saying that the mortgage arrears resolution process, MARP, would be changed for those scenarios and that such cases would get to court faster? What is he advocating?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Is legislation required?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: I wish to ask Mr. David Hall a question on restructured mortgages, of which he has a lot of direct experience. Are funds restructuring loans or not? We have the Central Bank's quarterly mortgage arrears statistics which tell us the number of restructured loans on the books of unregulated loan owners. However, the statistics cannot tell us whether the fund did the restructuring or whether...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Not at all?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: I want to be specific here. Mr. Hall is an advocate for borrowers and has a lot of direct contact with people. He has contact with these funds or, presumably, it is through the intermediate credit servicing firm. Has he had cases where new agreements have been entered into involving term extension, split mortgage, arrears capitalisation or interest only by a fund owning a loan and the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: How many of these funds has Mr. Hall dealt with?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Mr. Hall did. Tanager said in writing that it does not do arrears capitalisation, which is the plain vanilla of restructures.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: I will bring the others in. Is it Mr. Hall's view that if someone's loan is sold to a vulture fund, they are less likely to get a loan restructure?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: Have our other two witnesses anything to add? Is that their experience? Is that true?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Resolution of Non-Performing Loans: Discussion (Resumed) (17 May 2018)

Michael McGrath: My final point, and it is not a question, is that our problem is that we are flying blind. We get no engagement from these funds. There is no accountability. We cannot get the type of data for which we have been looking. When people will not come before Parliament and will not respond in a positive way to correspondence from an Oireachtas committee that looks for them to appear before it...

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