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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 130: In page 42, between lines 9 and 10, to insert the following: “Report on extending 10-year ownership and usage period for Capital Gains Tax retirement relief 25. The Minister for Finance shall, within 90 days of the passing of this Act, publish a report on extending the 10-year ownership and usage period for Capital Gains Tax retirement relief to a spouse...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I listened to what the Minister said. None of us is trying to create loopholes in the tax law or encourage tax avoidance. That is not the objective behind the amendment. I am seeking a report into the issue to see whether it is possible to ensure that a mechanism is in place that will not discourage the joint ownership of farmland. There are many barriers to this happening. From a policy...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I will withdraw the amendment on the basis of the Minister's response. I thank him for that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 131: In page 42, between lines 9 and 10, to insert the following: “Report on determining land area for solar panel installation 25.The Minister for Finance shall, within 90 days of the passage of this Act, publish a report on addressing the current ambiguity on the calculations used to determine the area of land on which solar panels are installed, for Capital...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I thank the Minister for his clarity on that. The nub of the issue is that I do not think any of the Revenue Commissioners is a sheep farmer. The problem is with the definition. The definition, as outlined by the Revenue Commissioners, is that the area around and between solar panels is considered the area for calculation that is suitable for farming. The reality is that under these...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I will come back to the Minister on that. I take him at his word. The difficulty is that I am talking about genuine farming and the grazing of this land. I am not talking about people who are trying to avoid paying tax. It is a significant barrier to the roll-out of renewable energy across the country, in particular the deployment of solar panels. We have the mother and father of all...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I will withdraw it, with leave to reintroduce it on Report Stage and give the Minister time to think about it.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: With the amount we are getting for them, he can have more than two.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I move amendment No. 133: In page 44, to delete lines 12 to 37, to delete page 45, and in page 46, to delete lines 1 to 30. I will speak to amendments Nos. 133 and 134 together.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: Amendment No. 133 seeks to delete the carbon tax on agricultural diesel. Amendment No. 134 is, relatedly, to have a report on that proposal. The Minister and I have had this discussion on a number of occasions in the past. The reality is that within the agricultural sector, there is no alternative to diesel at present. We do not have electric tractors or hybrid vehicles and the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: The difficulty I have is that not only are we discussing the increase in carbon tax from next spring but we are looking at increasing the carbon tax for agricultural fuel from now until 2030. I will deal with this incremental increase in carbon taxes in far more detail when discussing one of my later amendments. Specifically at this point, we are looking at an additional carbon tax on the...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I accept that for farmers who have a tax liability the changes made in 2012 will benefit them. I do not dispute this but the fact is that a very large proportion of farmers in this country do not have a tax liability because they are making very little, if nothing, from their farms at present. The reliefs are all well and good but farmers cannot access them unless they actually have a...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I will not come back to the agricultural aspect of it. I ask the Minister to think about it again in advance of Report Stage and I will resubmit them on Report Stage.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I oppose the section because I do not believe that drip-feed taxes work in motivating people to change their approach. While I accept the principle of carbon taxes, I am opposed to this particular carbon structure approach being taken by the Government because I do not believe that a drip-feed model will motivate people to avoid paying tax and change their approach. This is an approach I...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: The point I was making to the Minister before the suspension is that the carbon tax, as presently structured, is regressive from a geographical perspective. It discriminates against people residing in rural areas who do not have alternatives available to them. I made the point that a family living in this city with direct access to Dublin Bus pays a weekly carbon tax - half the households...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: Yes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I want to echo the comments of Deputy Farrell in respect of data centres. I am not going to go into the argument today, as the Minister knows my views on the issue very well, but the one point I wish to add to Deputy Farrell's argument is that every other example of where there are large numbers of data centres, they are part of a very large electricity network. That is not the case in...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I will come back very briefly on the comments Deputy Matthews made. He is correct about the commentary by the ESRI. If the ESRI looked at a continental European model relating to the introduction of carbon taxes, then its commentary may very well be correct. We need to design carbon taxes that reflect the actual situation here in Ireland. That is not happening and is not being looked at....

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: I would like to comment briefly on the Minister's responses. In terms of data centres, we all accept that the direct economic activity from data centres is minimal. Using the construction dividend in terms of it is undermining our housing programme across the country. The Minister is correct that once these data centres are completed the amount of direct jobs generated is small. In terms...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2020: Committee Stage (Resumed) (17 Nov 2020)

Denis Naughten: That is because my point is twice as important.

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