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Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: When did the Department stop paying rent?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: The lease commenced in 2008.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Let me just go back to that issue. The legal proceedings are settled. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: The State is no longer in any way liable for this particular property.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Did Mr. Waters discuss it with the OPW?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: That would have presented the same problems.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Forgive my ignorance - I know Wolfe Tone Street but I do not know the building. What are we talking about?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Is it a redbrick?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: I mentioned the clear audit but obviously there are some other issues, in particular with compliance with national procurement rules. My question is on the 22 supply agreements valued at almost €5 million which were entered into in the subject year. Does Mr. Waters believe if the Department and its various sections entered into compliant procurement, there would have been a saving made?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: In terms of that specialised service, surely there was a sufficient period of notification for the need to do this or are we talking about an instantaneous requirement to exhume or discover?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Is that in France?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Asylum seeker accommodation in direct provision came up at the justice committee a number of years ago. With regard to the overall costs, on the basis the State-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: My phone is off. I can still hear it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: There are 22 private institutions providing the service and assisting the State and there are procurement issues in respect of some of those and the Office of Government Procurement, OGP. In his opening statement, Mr. Waters contended that the Department is compliant with EU guidance on such matters but it is clearly not compliant with the OGP. Given that the OGP was, I think, established...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: There has been a very significant increase in the number of asylum seekers in Europe from various crises, wars, etc., and we will likely become accustomed to it continuing to grow, albeit work is being done in parts of the world where asylum seekers originate. In terms of the remit of the Committee on Public Accounts, however, does Mr. Waters believe in the long term that continuing to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Given the chronic shortage of housing and consumer sentiment in respect of expenditure on tourism-related activities, presumably Mr. Waters is talking about the perfect storm whereby the Department does not have properties and cannot get hotel rooms, etc. I would have thought on that basis the projected increase in this area would result in quite extensive increases in public expenditure...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: In terms of a pattern of expenditure within direct provision in the State, I presume we are seeing a steady increase.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: There are two or three areas I would like to touch on including payroll, where overpayments unfortunately are pretty normal in Departments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: Would Mr. Waters give us more information on the prospect of resolution of the 25 cases with capacity problems in the Magdalen fund?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Alan Farrell: We are talking about cash payments here. Is there non-cash provision of services that individuals can avail of and have they been doing so?

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