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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Prior to the report's completion, how many times did the professors meet the people? They said that it was never flagged that there might be legal implications to printing the report. Was there a specified frequency of meetings at which there was an evaluation and a step-by-step indication of progress, for example, two thirds of the way through or three quarters of the way through? At any...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Was that through the process of consultation or at the end when the final report was produced?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Was that after the final draft was submitted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Then it started to shift-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Inconsistencies have been mentioned. Obviously there would have been toing and froing and inconsistencies, and they shifted. Did that progress as things went on? Do the witnesses know what I mean? It has been said that things shifted. Did the number of those inconsistencies increase or did they just move from one inconsistency to another?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: I thank the delegates for attending. I was listening to Deputy Chambers's questions. To be clear, Professor Kilkelly is saying No. 4 in the sequence of events - presenting findings and recommendations to staff, management and the board of the Oberstown campus - was reversed with No. 5. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: In the light of that, the board believes the proper process was not followed. If it had been reversed, the findings would have influenced the final report, whereas we now have a final report and new findings-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: At what stage did the board decide to seek legal advice?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Was there a discussion on seeking legal advice at any time during the process? Obviously, there were discussions and, given the board's experience, there might have been implications. Was there ever a discussion on seeking legal advice before the decision to seek it was taken?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: Why was that decision not taken before the final report was generated, given the influence it would have had on it? As Professor Kilkelly said, the board wanted to find a solution, as we all do, that would ensure everything would be open and transparent. Taking that decision before the final report was produced would have fed into it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: At no stage prior to the final report did the board consider that it may have to seek legal advice.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: The board discussed it and before the final report was completed, decided that no legal advice would be sought until after its submission.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: I am trying to understand why that legal advice was not sought before the final report was compiled. Such legal advice would feed into the final report. Why did the board not seek legal advice before the final report was generated?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: The board made its decision on a process matter, that the process was------

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: In light of the fact that Professor Kilkelly flagged to the reviewers that legal advice would probably be required before the final report was completed and that the board knew that this was coming down the tracks, did it not consider it prudent to seek legal advice before the report was submitted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: After the final report was completed and it had been decided to seek legal advice, was there discussion of how to resolve the potential problem of the legal advice being contrary to what was in the report? Was there any such discussion before the final report was completed? Before the report was printed, was there any consideration of what would be done if the report was produced and legal...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: I understand that. Was that possibility discussed as risk management or risk planning, such that a fall-back plan was in place for certain scenarios? Were there any discussions in that regard?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: On redaction, Professor Kilkelly is stating that when the board looked at the report and decided to publish the recommendations, the legal advice was that none of the rationales behind the recommendations and how they were arrived at could be produced. Did the board or those providing the legal advice consider whether the rationale behind each individual recommendation could be published?...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: The committee is completely in the dark in this regard.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus Operational Review Report: Discussion (30 Jan 2019)

Tom Neville: I thank Professor Kilkelly for her time.

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