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Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: -----we should accept that they have come to this view because, like all in this House, they are trying to do what is best. I have only listed a number of organisations but they should not be dismissed as having any motive apart from what is best for those who find themselves in a very vulnerable situation. The amendment inserts a review provision into the Bill in respect of one section...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: -----in those jurisdictions where a similar approach has been implemented. For these reasons, and because of a minor drafting difficulty with the amendment, I am not in a position to accept it.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I did not say that. I said that all-----

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I did not say it.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I said that all legislation is kept under constant review. With regard to this amendment, it clearly has been cut and pasted from the Northern Irish legislation. The word "Assembly"-----

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: -----appears in the amendment and it would have to be amended before it could be considered.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I am ready for the Senator. Bring it on.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Sections 20 and 21 provide two offences for the criminalisation of the purchase of sexual services. The first is a general offence of paying to engage in sexual activity with a prostitute and the second is the more serious offence of paying to engage in sexual activity with a trafficked person. These provisions are the result of considerable and extensive public consultation by the...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: The most direct way of combating this form of exploitation is to send a message to those who pay for these services and those who ignore the exploitation of the women and men that their behaviour is not acceptable and supports the exploitation of other people. Senator Norris raised many aspects in the debate today. He raised issues regarding the impact of the provisions, and safety, health...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I thank the Senators for the amendment. It proposes to increase the penalty for the organisation of prostitution. The Minister supports the aim of the Senators' proposal. There have been calls to review the existing penalties for offences relating to prostitution. The Minister has concerns over some penalties in this area, for example, the maximum penalty for living on the earnings of...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I thank the Senator. The Minister appreciates the purpose behind the proposed amendment but she has initial misgivings about it. The purpose of the provisions in sections 22 and 23 is to remove the existing gender anomaly relating to the penalty for incest by a male as opposed to by a female. Otherwise, they reflect the provisions of the Punishment of Incest Act 1908. When offences of...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: It is a difficult discussion to have and I understand that it can cause great upset to people who have been victims of this offence or affected by it. In a technical sense, the offence of incest is limited to those relationships that may result in pregnancy. On that basis, sexual intercourse between two brothers would not be considered to be incest.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: No, the Senator is right. A female under the age of 17 years cannot commit an offence. Someone who is 16 and three quarters years of age would not be committing an offence.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: In any legislation dealing with an age limit, this matter will always arise. One could say it is nonsensical for somebody who is 17 years and 364 days old not to be able to vote but that is the reality of our current arrangement. It features in this legislation also. It is the Supreme Court adjudication that the Oireachtas is entitled to protect girls under the age of 17 years from the...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: We are not saying that.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Again, the language is quite clear. The legislation refers to protecting girls from the risk of pregnancy. The Oireachtas has a responsibility to protect girls from the risk of pregnancy. We are not in any way suggesting that somebody under 17 cannot become pregnant. Such a suggestion would be preposterous. The Supreme Court adjudication dates from 2006.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: That is why we are protecting them. My point has been made. It is our responsibility as legislators to protect a girl under the age of 17 from a risk of pregnancy through a sexual violation, sexual assault, rape or incest. This is what we are dealing with. In a manner, we are dancing on the head of a pin but essentially the point has been made.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Yes.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: Section 33 regulates the disclosure of the content of third-party counselling or therapy records in sexual offence trials. The disclosure of counselling or therapy records in the context of criminal proceedings, especially with regard to sexual violence, touches on several sensitive issues and balancing of rights. The right to a fair trial for an accused must be respected. However, so too...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

Aodhán Ó Ríordáin: I thank the Senator for bringing forward these amendments. This question of introducing a statutory definition of consent has been raised by a number of groups, in particular those who work with and support the victims of sexual offences and also by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality in terms of domestic and sexual violence. Moreover, this is an issue which does...

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