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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I hope that is clear.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I refer the Deputy to the provision for an additional member under section 17: (5) A member who has been added to the committee after the committee has started conducting the Part 2 inquiry shall have regard to— (a) each interim report (if any) of the committee made by the committee before he or she became a committee member, and (b) evidence received by the committee before he or she...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Exactly.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: One cannot make law for every eventuality. If sufficient numbers are removed for whatever reason, then the inquiry itself will collapse.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: As I have indicated, that is a matter for the rules of the House.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: The House would have to have regard for natural justice. The House sets up the committee and its terms of reference. It sets who is to conduct the committee and the number of members on the committee and it will determine what is to be the critical mass.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I move amendment No. 21: In page 28, subsection (5), line 31, to delete “in any way” and substitute “for that reason alone”.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: There are two points. Constitutionally, Members of the House are made accountable to the House and not to any external person. For example, for utterances in the House they cannot be hauled before the courts or held to account elsewhere. Therefore, they must be held to account here. The Bill establishes the rules and procedures to ensure this is done in a fair way. The full panoply of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: In the first instance, the House will set up the committee and will make that determination. If the committee is established with a member who carries a perception of bias, a witness or a person subject to the inquiry will have access to the courts to vindicate his or her good name. Once the inquiry is established, a role is afforded to the chairman of the committee to maintain the...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Once the committee has been set up. For clarity I refer to a situation where there is a doubt. The issue of bias will be returned to the House for a determination.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Ultimately, if the person challenged the direction of the committee in that regard.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: There is no censure; this is simply to remove someone who is biased.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: That is a very good question. It will be a matter for the House itself to determine. I imagine that people will look at the composition of a committee. For instance, as with the jury system, if a person is of the view that the proposed member might not be objectively impartial and would put any finding of the committee or the work of the committee at risk of challenge in the courts, this...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: That is the normal practice. I refer to section 17(4) which states: "The House may by resolution remove a committee member from, or add a member of the House to, the committee in accordance with the rules and standing orders of the House." This is a matter on which the House will have to seize itself. The normal way in which a committee is constructed is that the numbers are fixed and then...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Deputy Fleming has made this point previously and it is a valid one. He will note from the section that I have provided that "the House may, at any time before it is given the finals report request the committee to give it interim reports in writing in accordance with rules and standing orders". Therefore, it is for the House to determine in this respect. I do not want to be prescriptive...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: It might be a very unbalanced view, for example, if only one side of the argument is set out.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I felt it was a very unsatisfactory part of the tribunal system where evidence was adduced and presented and the rebuttal was presented months later.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I believe that-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: Yes, but I believe the section captures what the Deputy seeks to achieve.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Public Expenditure and Reform: Houses of the Oireachtas (Inquiries, Privileges and Procedures) Bill 2013: Committee Stage (5 Jun 2013)

Brendan Howlin: I am saying that the law provides for it. The section provides that "the House may, at any time before it is given the final report, request the committee to give it ... [an interim report]". If the Deputy was engaged in the middle of a process, he could ask for this as a Member of the House.

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