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Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: My question is more just about-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: That is Senator Clonan's question. My question-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: This is just my time.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: This is my time and my question is regarding the soft power. Does Mr. Andrews not think we are letting go of soft power by decreasing our development spending?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: I would question then the increase in defence spending in lieu of the increase in development spending as a risk. Given the mandate-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: I feel that is how it is being treated at the EU level at the moment.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: However, across EU member states there has been a decrease.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: Okay. I would disagree with that. We have the SAFE regulation that has not gone through the EU Parliament or the Dáil. That means EU battle groups are not accountable to the EU Parliament or the courts, I think. How does that align to sustainable development goal 16, which, for those who might not know, is providing access to justice for all and building effective, accountable...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: I thank Mr. Andrews.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: I wish to touch on the question of safeguarding in the context of EU battle group missions. We know a lot about the different safeguards that come with a UN deployment. UN missions are a whole holistic thing that include safeguardings, the monitoring of human rights violations and ensuring missions are compliant. Mr. Andrews mentioned in his earlier interventions that the EU’s...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: Were there violations in any of the Mali or Niger missions?

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: Absolutely. I fundamentally agree with that. To come back to the battle groups-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: Absolutely. That piece of credibility is what I am getting at. That is my concern when it comes to battle groups. Please let me know whether there are mechanisms at Parliament or the European Court of Human Rights levels to monitor battle groups. I have that sense of safety around the UN missions because of the mechanisms that exist when they are deployed. I do not believe - correct me...

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: It would lead us to engage in EU battle groups without the UN mandate. It is linked.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: Only up to 12 personnel, surely. The triple lock fundamentally changes our relationship with the EU battle groups and deployments.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: I disagree with that point. I thank Mr. Andrews.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: We currently only provide training in EU battle groups-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: While we will not be obliged, there are no safeguards to say we will not do it. We may not be obliged but-----

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: At every opportunity we have had to deploy our 12 troops to any place, Ireland has done it.

Committee on Defence and National Security: General Scheme of the Defence (Amendment) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (3 Jul 2025)

Patricia Stephenson: We have deployed troops to Afghanistan. Any opportunity that has been given to us to deploy our 12 or below troops on a rolling basis, Ireland has participated in that, including missions. While I am not saying our troops were ever involved in anything that was human rights non-compliant, they have been deployed to such missions in an overall sense, including Afghanistan. That has happened...

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