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Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: Yes.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 5: In page 5, between lines 10 to 11, to insert the following: "(b) to prepare and approve detailed proposals for disbursement under the Dormant Accounts Acts 2001 to 2004,". I move this amendment to avoid complications. I welcome what the Minister said about the report of the dormant accounts board being discussed in the House and invite him to consider, not necessarily...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I welcome the amendment. As a matter of practice I am unhappy with the phrase, "the Minister's opinion", whenever it arises. The Minister's opinion is unchallengeable. He is entitled to his opinion. If the reference was to "the Minister's judgment" or "if the Minister was satisfied", it would be capable of some judicial test, although I am not suggesting one would want to do that, as to how...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 7: In page 10, line 20, to delete "Minister" and substitute "Board". This may be repetitious as we discussed some of this before. The issue is difficult because the Minister has made a genuine effort to listen and respond to what was said here on Committee Stage. However, there is genuine unease that the decision on the allocation of funds will be a political decision....

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: It is a fact that they were not followed.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: The Minister made a sincere and plausible case. I do not wish to get involved in an argument with him, but the truth is that if one looks at section 8, which we will come to later, the disbursement will not be decided by a system within the Department, it will be decided on the basis of a recommendation to Government which the Government may approve, with or without amendment. I have no...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 8: In page 11, lines 1 and 2, to delete "submit to the Minister" and substitute "approve". Question, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand", put and declared carried.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 9: In page 11, line 43, to delete "by the Minister". Question, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand", put and declared carried.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 11: In page 11, line 43, to delete "by the Minister". Question, "That the words proposed to be deleted stand", put and declared carried.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: As Senator McHugh stated, many issues are raised in the amendments and I look forward to hearing the Minister's response to them. When he addresses his own amendments, will he explain why we need the subsections of section 8 which form the new Part 6 of the original Act? Given his eloquent sincerity about the decentralisation of decision making, why does he propose to provide that the...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: It is fortunate that this group of amendments has been recommitted because it is difficult to discuss them without discussing the section. I understand the reason the Government would have a role in the construction of a scheme. However, the section, as proposed, states: "Applications received in response to applications shall be assessed by and or on behalf of public bodies." I accept the...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: The Government already does so.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: Senator McHugh might, but I will not.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: Those days are gone.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: Perhaps the Minister is making an offer.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: The Minister's response is disappointing. I have listened very carefully to what he had to say and either he is wrong or he is being disingenuous. There is nothing in this legislation which states that the Government when dealing with the Minister's bringing forth of results of assessments to Cabinet must have regard to anything. The Minister must have regard to the approved plan when...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: We are on amendment No. 24. Amendments Nos. 12 to 24, inclusive, are being discussed together, along with section 8.

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I can suggest a number of variations. The Minister has made plausible points, however, another plausible point is that different Ministers will have different expertise. The Minister could confine the Government's approval to it being satisfied that the criteria already set out were followed in the decision-making process. If the reason behind the process is to ensure rules are not being...

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: Why does it need to be amended?

Seanad: Dormant Accounts (Amendment) Bill 2004: Report and Final Stages. (8 Dec 2004)

Brendan Ryan: I move amendment No. 25: In page 12, line 33, to delete "Minister" and substitute "Board".

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