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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: That is right. We probably have debated this thoroughly and I hope that Senators Craughwell and Norris and I have made a strong case for the changes we are seeking. In the meantime, I am not prepared to proceed on the basis that the Minister will consider it and that his advisers say it is more important to keep consistency with the Property Registration Authority. That is far less...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: This goes to the heart of the constitutional order. I do not believe secrets in the Property Registration Authority are of the same order at all. I cannot even imagine what secrets the PRA has.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: In any event, this is of a wholly different order and requires a different approach. I ask the Minister to withdraw his amendments and we will proceed to the next section. Otherwise, I must oppose his amendments.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: It would also improve the section, if we are going to have a confidentiality obligation, to make it clear that it is not geographically confined as to its ambit and, therefore, any person anywhere, whether inside or outside the State, who reveals this information would commit a criminal offence. We would not want somebody going to Newry to hand over the information. We do not want something...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I object to amendment No. 66 on the basis the Minister has defended it here. Effectively, it permits the commission to delegate to the director the business of consenting to information being disclosed. I have an objection to this and I am not happy with amendment No. 66 in any shape or form or however it is defended.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I asked the Minister to withdraw the amendment but he will not do so.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I move amendment No. 70:In page 21, between lines 8 and 9, to insert the following: “Strict confidentiality of certain communications and matters28.(1) Subject to the provisions of this Act and in addition to the provisions of section 27—(a) the proceedings of the Commission or of its committees, (b) confidential information within the meaning of section 27, (c) confidential...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: There are a number of points in respect of section 28 that I would like to deal with. I notice that in section 28(1)(a) the section is stated to apply to the commission, the procedures committee or any other committee of the commission. Is it possible under the terms of the Bill, as it stands, for someone to be or to have been a member of the procedures committee, or any other committee of...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: Then why are we saying that this applies to a "to a person who is or was ... a member of the Commission, the Procedures Committee or any other committee" instead of just saying "who was a member of the Commission"?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: It looks as if it is erroneous. Perhaps at one stage there was a provision in the text for the co-option of people who are not members of the commission.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I still do not understand why it does not apply only to a member of the commission or the director or a member of staff of the commission. I do not understand why it is necessary to specify the procedures committee. Section 28(2) states:In addition to what is provided for in section 27, a person to whom this section applies shall not, except for the purposes of this Act, disclose—...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: My point is that the words following "a member of the Commission" have no additional meaning and do not widen the scope of the provision or play any useful part. If a person is or was a member of the commission, regardless of what committee of which he or she might be a member, the duty of confidentiality imposed by section 28(2) is dependent on the committee of which he or she is or was a...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I refer the Minister to section 16(1) which deals with the procedures committee and its role in the case of applicants for judicial office. It states:The Commission shall establish a committee to be known as the Judicial Appointments Procedures Committee (in this Act referred to as the “Procedures Committee”) to perform the functions assigned to that Committee under this Act...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: Section 28(2) states: "In addition to what is provided for in section 27...". Will it be a criminal offence to infringe the confidentiality provisions set out in section 28(2)?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: Why then is the section being retained in the Bill? To me, it does not appear to add anything to section 27, as amended.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I am sorry to be difficult, but where are the provisions of section 27, as amended, made applicable to section 28?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: We are back on the section, as amended. Is that right?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: I see we have amended it. I do not want to be repetitive but I really believe this offence is non-investigable for the reasons I mentioned previously. Could the Minister explain with regard to subsection 2(b) why the ban on revealing any matter concerning the removal of a member is confined to the period of time before the removal takes place under section 20?

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: Subsection 2(b) concerns any matter concerning the removal of a member of the commission. The persons prohibited from dealing with that are people who are or have been members of the commission. Does it mean that somebody who was removed from membership of the commission is free to talk about that and the reasons he or she was removed after the removal but is not free to do so before his or...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (14 Nov 2018)

Michael McDowell: Before or after? It is of some relevance. If somebody is removed from the membership of the commission, one would presume he or she would be entitled to say afterwards why he or she was removed or why it was unfair that he or she was removed - or maybe not. Perhaps there is a total prohibition and they are supposed to go to their grave without comment about what happened to them and why...

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