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Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: If you operate at 65%, which has been the average, then we are possibly looking at beyond Christmas of 2025. If you operate at 65% in terms of progress, then we could be looking at January 2026.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Given that it is nine months for the commissioning and given the fact that there has never been progress over a three-month period of 100% or anything near it, with the average coming in at 64%, then we are looking at a scenario of possibly January 2026 for actually opening and accepting patients. Is that a possibility?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I understand, as I have said previously, that everything is easy until one goes to do it. I understand that. Even a small job can turn out to be more difficult and I understand that. However, I want to put a couple of points to Mr. Gunning. Hindsight is great, of course, but would he agree that the location presented a lot of challenges? I do not expect him to say, because he cannot,...

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I watched one day for about 15 minutes. I watched trucks going in and out when the excavation was going on and I could see the difficulties even then. Would Mr. Gunning agree that it does present challenges? No matter where you go, there will be challenges. If you went down to a green field site beside the M50-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes, but especially in that particular location, and the design, which could be described as a wow or vanity project from an architectural point of view, is complex. It is probably not the easiest building to build. Would that be correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know it did.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I have seen the most awful buildings getting planning permission, as has everybody in this room and everybody watching these proceedings. The design is both complex and challenging. Would Mr. Gunning agree with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I am questioning Mr. Gunning, as project manager, at this point. In terms of the contract, PwC produced a report and recommendations, which I read yesterday. PwC said that the type of contract that was used presented risks. If we were doing it all again-----

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: We will have Mr. Gunning's response first and then I will let you in, Mr. Tierney.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: PwC had a good deal to say about the way the contract was structured.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know that. I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: The site is challenging though.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: The future came up earlier and obviously everything we do can be improved the next time.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: It can always be improved, no matter how many times we have done it. If a team has played ten matches in the season and is going out to play the 11th, it will look at the mistakes made in the first ten games and try to improve for the next one. I understand that and what is important is that there are other contracts coming up, including for a national maternity hospital, which is badly...

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is what I meant by the contractor. I meant BAM.

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is what I meant by the contractor. BAM put forward the figure of €641 million but the outcome was €18 million. There is a huge gulf between those two figures. On the determination of disputed claims, how many have been submitted by the board itself?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: No. I am going to ask my question in a different way because I want to try to get an answer here. Of the 2,379 claims, which is the total on the project so far, how many have been submitted by the board?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: Every one of them?

Public Accounts Committee: Children’s Health Ireland and National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Discussion (19 Oct 2023)

Brian Stanley: When you say contractor claims, what do you mean? I want the public to understand this.

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