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Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Excuse me, how will their bundle increase? For a customer with ESB or Airtricity, what bundle will they choose that will reduce their emissions? We do not have smart metering at the moment, although it is being rolled out. I imagine if that was rolled out it would provide people with data to enable them to monitor use and how they can make changes. I do not buy the logic put forward by...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Will they stop heating their homes?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The ESRI cannot seriously say it will decrease by 3.9%. Emissions went up last year and we know agriculture is one of the big polluters. The ESRI cannot seriously be saying that a carbon tax increase of €30 would reduce emissions by 3.9%. What is the carbon tax at the moment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The ESRI officials are suggesting that an increase from €20 to €30 would mean a 3.9% decrease.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I know what the difference is. I am saying that I cannot imagine how it tallies given where we are at the moment. We already have significant carbon taxes. I cannot image how increasing the charge from €20 per tonne to €30 per tonne would result in a 3.9% emissions reduction. The ESRI has not really convinced me that people will make the changes, other than perhaps putting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: The average family cannot afford an electric car. If such a family lives in rural Ireland where there is no public transport, they have to use the car. Do they stop bringing their children to school?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: We are talking about changing behaviour. The ESRI officials have said it will reduce carbon. It is not about their income. It is about reducing the carbon footprint and emissions. What if a family cannot afford an electric car? The ESRI is making the assumption that there will be a reduction of 3.9%. I am trying to understand what that assumption is based on. What are they going to do?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: What are they going to do? The ESRI officials are not telling me what an individual is going to do, apart from the possibility that people might turn off electricity. They may or may not do so. That is a real assumption because they may be unable to do so. There are several ways in which people can reduce emissions. People can change their car - that is one option. They can use public...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Where does it come from?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: We are talking about carbon taxes. I asked about this earlier. I agree there are alternatives and other things we can do. I am asking specifically about carbon taxes. If we are going to reach a 3.9% reduction, does the model envisage that the majority of the changes would come from individual behaviour?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Exactly. It does not include farming or business.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Yet, we know from the last figures we saw that agricultural emissions went up. Is that not correct? I have high regard for the ESRI as an organisation but I am really struggling to believe that an increase of €10 would see a fall of 3.9%. I would have to see more evidence. I am not convinced by it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: That may be the case if people have alternatives. For example, I supported the sugar tax. That is a good example of where there is an alternative. I can order a Coke Zero instead of a Coke, and that changes my behaviour. The plastic bag levy is another example of taxes and levies that work. They can work where people have an easy alternative they can use. What about carbon tax increases...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I still do not find the figures credible. Having said that, they are the figures we have. It is our job to probe and understand them. I am not convinced by the answers I have gotten. I want to move to the CSO. We are obliged to study the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General. Page 128 states that emissions from the European Union emissions trading system sectors do not count...

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I understand that but I am asking why. Does the CSO understand the logic of why they are not included?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: I understand that. I am not saying the CSO makes the decisions. Can the CSO explain to me why they are excluded?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Is aviation part of that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Aviation is included. Aviation is a big polluter. Yet we are excluding aviation from the national emissions targets. To me that is extraordinary. What about private jets? Do we have any analysis on the use of private jets?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: Is there research on the carbon footprint of that sector?

Public Accounts Committee: 2018 Annual Report of the Accounts of the Public Services
Chapter 9 - Greenhouse Gas-Related Financial Transactions: Discussion
(5 Nov 2019)

David Cullinane: What about the CSO?

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