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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: I understand that; I am just saying in plain and simple terms that we are down €3 billion because the share prices dropped.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: There is now a concern about bank stabilisation in other countries. We are hearing stories about the possibility that banks in other countries will need to be recapitalised again. Has the Comptroller and Auditor General done any work on the issue of bank stabilisation to look at this area, in particular, and what the State put into the banks and then at whether the share value has gone up...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Does that figure include the interest we are paying back?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: It is the net figure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: It is a restatement of what we already know, that Anglo Irish Bank was the noose around the State's neck when it was nationalised. Obviously, it came at a big cost. If the overall figure of what it is going to cost us in terms of what we put into the banks is €40 billion-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: -----the interest we are paying over five years is €33 billion. I do not need a response, but when people hear these figures, it sounds like Monopoly money. However, €33 billion is a huge amount of money when one considers how many hospitals and schools we need and the investment needed in and the pressures on public services. It is extraordinary that we have gone through...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: We received a briefing note from the Department of Finance on the Apple escrow account. The NTMA's presentation was excellent across all of the key areas. The Apple escrow account lost €16 million in value up to December 2018. While it might seem like a small figure in the context of the total sum of €14.269 billion in the fund, how did the loss occur?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: There are only two potential outcomes. There is an appeal against the Commission's decision in the first instance. If the Commission sustains its original decision, the State will get the €14.269 billion and the question will be how it should spend it. If the Government wins and the taxpayer loses, I take it that Apple will get its money back. Will it only get what is in the fund?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Does the NTMA have any sense of how long the process will take before a decision is made? I imagine it will impact on the type of investments to be made, will it not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Has the NTMA been given any indication? Is it anything like "How long is a piece of rope"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: I refer to the voluntary redundancy scheme that operates within the NTMA. It is not something that is generally available in the public sector. My understanding - I might be wrong - is that one of the few other semi-State or Government agencies to run a similar scheme is NAMA, but there may be others. Why is there a voluntary redundancy scheme in place? It seems to be a very attractive...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: What does it entail?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General whether this is something at which he would look. If it is unique to the NTMA and not available to others across the public service, would the Comptroller and Auditor General comment on it in his report?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: When Mr. McCarthy says "draw attention to it", what does he mean? Is it simply to draw attention to it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Okay. Given that attention has been drawn to it, what is Mr. O'Kelly's view of the scheme, given that it is not in place across the public service? What is the logic in having it available in the NTMA? Was it sought by it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: I do not necessarily think it is a bad thing to have. It is something that could be looked at across the public service. It is included in the financial statement but perhaps we could get a more detailed note on how it works. That may be useful for us, given that our attention has been drawn to it. It seems to be unique although I believe NAMA and others operate similar schemes. Is that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: The note the committee got shows that in 2018, €13.4 million was spent on fit-out costs and professional fees relating to the new office accommodation at 1 Dublin Landings, North Wall Quay. We discussed this when the NTMA was before the committee previously. I estimate that, between 2018 and 2019, the fit-out costs are likely to exceed €25 million. Are those figures correct?...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Is there a breakdown of the total between fit-out costs and professional fees?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 21 - Accounts of the National Treasury Management Agency
National Treasury Management Agency Financial Statements 2018
(4 Jul 2019)

David Cullinane: We can all rightly be angry at the mountain of debt we have and at the massive social cost for citizens associated with it but it is also important to point out that we do not often have Accounting Officers before the committee who give us the level and quality of detail we have got today. The quality of the work of the NTMA is recognised across the political divide and outside it. It is...

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