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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: I thank the Deputy for his contribution. When he says the plan is flawed, he is saying that, as he admitted, from an ideological point of view. He thinks it is flawed because it is over-reliant on the private sector. It is not that the plan is flawed in terms of increasing the output to the degree that it will increase it - for example, by increasing the stock of social housing by more...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes. Even if it was not unconstitutional, I would make the point that it would not solve the problem. It would only displace the problem. I will explain to Deputy Barry how it would displace the problem. What would happen is people would not be able to sell their homes and they would not be able to buy homes. There would still be new people without anywhere to live, if people were frozen...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: I can give the committee 15 minutes. I am in the Seanad later with the Housing (Regulation of Approved Housing Bodies) Bill 2019. I am also with the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform on another issue. I have other things on, but I can give a few more minutes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: On the constitutional change, the point remains that it would not have solved the problem. I do not have the Bill in front of me, and there have been a few pieces of legislation or proposals put to me around this whole area of tenants' rights on when a property is for sale or on whether it can be sold at all. I do not want to be too exact, but from memory it was not just that it was...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: I can do that Chair. I always appreciate our engagements. The throwaway line I hear so often is that Rebuilding Ireland is not working and yet in her contribution, the Senator pointed to the Rebuilding Ireland home loan, which is great and is working-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: Housing bodies and what they are doing come under Rebuilding Ireland. We have to get to a point in our public debate where we recognise what is working and where we can do better. That is what I am saying.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: It is important that we, as public representatives, make a balanced contribution or else the public will lose faith in the system altogether. On Carlow, HAP and the uplift, or the additional payment that may be made, HAP is only done after a fair assessment of a tenant's ability to meet the HAP payment and any additional payment that might be made. What we do not want people to do is to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: When we did our first call for the serviced sites fund it was based on the areas that were most exposed in terms of affordability. The second call went further and what we want to do is have the scheme open and have local authorities come forward as they have plans. They will need to have their economic assessments done if that is to happen.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: Sure. I cannot see from my notes if Carlow did it-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: We will check on Carlow and see what has happened there. On CPO, I think I mentioned recently in the Chamber that there is a piece of work that needs to be done on it. Some of our CPO law is based on legislation that predates the foundation of the State. It is antiquated. It is in a number of different legislative vehicles. There is a piece of work that needs to be done to bring it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: No, I did not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: No, I did not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: I dispute that-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: What I said in my reply was that it would depend on the vehicle in which the Bill was brought forward. If it was brought forward as a Private Members' Bill, for example, I would had to have brought a memo to Cabinet. In bringing a memo to Cabinet, I would have to seek observations from the Attorney General on legal issues around a Bill, or a position on constitutional issues. That was the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: No. I am 100% certain the Attorney General told me that. What I cannot be clear on is whether I have it in writing, because I cannot remember the mechanism. The Deputy is clarifying it for me now, but he is asking me to speak from memory on a Bill he brought forward in 2017. That is a dangerous thing to do in a committee. We are meant to be reviewing Rebuilding Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: Yes, but the Deputy is asking me about a Cabinet meeting from two years ago.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: This is meant to be an opportunity for us, as parliamentarians,-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: -----to go through the details of Rebuilding Ireland. Deputy Barry likes to create little theatre shows, however, which are frustrating. It is clearly unconstitutional. One does not need to be a constitutional lawyer to know that. That is why I was able to say it was unconstitutional when the Deputy asked me. I know for certain because I have discussed these issues at length with the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: I had understood that Deputy Casey had given up his speaking time to Deputy Barry. I am glad he got in and asked me some questions about what we are trying to do in Rebuilding Ireland. On the off-balance sheet issue for housing bodies, I met the Irish Council for Social Housing, ICSH, earlier in this term and I met the Housing Alliance, which represents the large tier 3 housing bodies, I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Update on Rebuilding Ireland: Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (12 Dec 2019)

Eoghan Murphy: Was there another question about over 65s?

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