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Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 2: In page 10, subsection (1), to delete lines 37 to 39 and substitute the following:“ “lay person” shall be construed in accordance with subsection (3);”.The purpose of amendments Nos. 2 and 4 is to broaden slightly the definition of "lay person". The current definition states it means a person who is not and never was a practising solicitor...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I will take the last question first. There is no national standard for cooling-off periods. For some people who cease to be politicians, there is never a cooling-off period. I do not know. People have engagements in different professions but there are certainly people who might at some stage have been practising barristers or solicitors or engaged in other areas of life. Indeed, one...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: The reason is to ensure that from a public perspective, someone clearly fits the category of being a layperson if one is talking about a body designed to be independent where there is an architecture with a certain representation from the legal professions and a specific number of laypeople. Under the guise of laypersons, we do not want it to become top-heavy with lawyers and undermine the...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I know, and I am sure the Deputy is aware that during the 14 years during which his party was in Government and I was in Opposition it was quite usual for amendments to Bills to appear a maximum of four days before Committee Stage. There was nothing unusual about it. Unfortunately, in the context of the pressure of work involved between Departments and the Office of the Attorney General, it...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: We are dealing with the appointment of people to the legal services regulatory authority, the modalities of that and the organisations that might make appointments. It is a matter of principle in the Bill that there will be an independent regulatory authority. Some of the issues raised by the Deputy relate to much later sections. If as a matter of principle it is accepted by members that...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 3: In page 11, subsection (1), line 2, to delete "of solicitors".This is a technical amendment to ensure the bills of cost referred to are any bills of cost issued in the past or in the future by solicitors or barristers.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 4: In page 11, between lines 40 and 41, to insert the following subsection:"(3) For the purposes of this Act, a person is a lay person on a particular date if, on that date, he or she—(a) is not a practising solicitor or a practising barrister, and (b) where he or she has previously been a practising solicitor or a practising barrister, he or she—(i) has not...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 5: In page 11, lines 41 to 44, to delete subsection (1) and substitute the following:"(1) A regulation or order made under this Act may contain such incidental, supplementary and consequential provisions as the Minister or the Authority considers necessary or expedient.".The amendment removes the current reference to the legal practitioners disciplinary tribunal as it is...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I move amendment No. 6: In page 12, subsection (1), line 19, to delete "by this Act" and substitute "by or under this Act".This is a technical drafting amendment the Parliamentary Counsel has deemed necessary for this provision.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Several of the proposed amendments to section 8 are intended to increase the actual and perceived independence of the authority from the Government. When the Bill was published in 2011, concerns were raised about the issue of how the members of the new authority would be appointed and the independence of that process. These concerns emanated largely from the fact that the Bill, as...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: The answer is that the Minister of the day does not have an influence. The people appointed have to satisfy the relevant criteria specified in the legislation and their appointment has to be approved by resolution of both Houses. It would be open to either House to decide on some individual and to effectively reject the nominations, given there has to be a resolution. Members on all sides...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: It is appropriate that we have nominating bodies. Why would the President of the High Court be given that role? This involves lay people who will be appointed by a series of bodies whose engagements are quite clear in the areas of expertise they have. They are not bodies that are directly part and parcel of the legal profession. They are separate from it but they should have sufficient...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I have not heard any argument yet as to why it should be 13 rather than 11. I appreciate the number is somewhat arbitrary but one does not want an authority that is unnecessarily large or unwieldy so, to some extent, this is a subjective judgment. There is no ideal number for the authority’s operation and, looking at the balance to be struck and the nature of the representation from...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Among the nominating bodies to which we are referring are the Competition Authority and the Consumers' Association of Ireland. They have insights into the area to which the Deputy refers. I expect that the legal professions may nominate some of those because they would have an insight into those areas. I am not convinced that we should add IBEC and the ICTU. I will reflect on that,...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: In the context of public confidence in the authority and in not being perceived as a body that is in any way dominated by the professions, there is an advantage in the chairman being a lay person. The professions themselves have had lay people chairing certain committees on occasion for the same reason. It is appropriate that the chairperson be a lay person, but I am interested in what the...

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: The legal professions will be regulated through the work of the authority.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: I am not sure what the Deputy's point is.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: The 11 includes the chairperson.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: Yes.

Select Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Legal Services Regulation Bill 2011: Committee Stage (17 Jul 2013)

Alan Shatter: An uneven number is required. One would hope when it comes to the approach taken-----

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