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Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I was elected to this House by-----

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: -----a considerable number of people, more than some Deputies got in terms of first preferences and in those circumstances, I think I am entitled to have a say on this.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: In order not to waste the time of the House I did not press it to a vote but if there are any further motions of mine to recommit there will be a vote on them. I wish to make that clear now.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I thank the Senator.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I move: "That the Bill be recommitted in respect of section 22." This effort to choke and prevent me from even asking some questions about a section about which I have never had the opportunity to speak is very undemocratic. The Leader told me he would not oppose recommital. I am not here to waste time on this issue. I want to ask some questions. Senator Ivana Bacik should know that I...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I am moving that the section be recommitted so that I can ask some questions about it. If Senator Bacik-----

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: ----- wants to behave like this, there will be other days.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I thank the Fine Gael Members for allowing me to ask some questions on this section. In respect of this evening's proceedings, I only now realise that a guillotine was proposed on the Order of Business. I was about half a minute late and did not hear that being proposed.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: Hold on a second. I was going to apologise.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I did not hear that happening and that may explain why my amendment to adjourn at 7 p.m. sounded a bit strange given that the Leader had sought permission to have a guillotine at 9 p.m.On a point of information, there is no guillotine. We will conclude at 9 p.m. It was agreed that we would finish at 9 p.m.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: The discussion will conclude at 9 p.m., but the question is whether all sections will be deemed to be passed at 9 p.m.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I am sorry but that is just a guillotine.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I do not care how the Leader describes it, it is a guillotine.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: If all matters are dealt with in the form of a single question at 9 p.m., that is my definition of a guillotine. I am not going to get involved in semantics. I assure Senator Bacik that I am genuinely inquisitive as to why it is the case that in section 22 a relevant person is defined as somebody who has:(a) a mental or intellectual disability, or (b) a mental illness, which is of such a...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: In this instance, what is and what is not a defence is stated. The fact that consent was apparently given is not acceptable in cases where the relevant person is defined as being an individual who has a mental or intellectual disability or a mental illness which is of such a nature as to severely restrict the ability of the person to guard himself or herself against sexual exploitation....

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I fully take the Minister of State's point that this particular offence under section 22 is concerned with people in authority. One might consider that a person in authority is under a higher duty when it comes to protecting an individual suffering from mental disability and under his or her authority from engaging in sexual activity with him or her. The point I am making, is that it is the...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: I know. The Senator was dealing with a different section. However, in one case, namely, murder, if at the end of the prosecution case the jury has a reasonable doubt, not withstanding the presumption present, one is entitled to be acquitted. Here we are dealing with a different standard of proof, not reasonable doubt; here we are dealing with balance of probabilities. One must establish...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: Regardless of where the section came from, it has been recommitted and we are discussing it now, despite the efforts to stop me recommitting it. I am just making the point that it is strange that the standard of proof and the defence in the case of a person in authority sexually exploiting a person with a mental disability or illness seem to be lower, and there seems to be a lower procedural...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: Considering these two sections side by side, a person in authority is entitled to a better defence than a person who is not in authority under section 21. This is a strange thing to happen. If we did not face a guillotine and if we had the right to propose substantial amendments to the Bill and bring some rationality to it, surely we should provide that a person in authority faces a stiffer...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: [Seanad Bill amended by the Dáil] Report and Final Stages (14 Feb 2017)

Michael McDowell: A more serious offence is harder to prove.

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