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Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: One would have to amend other legislation as well as this legislation. I do not think that we are in a position to do that in the context of what is relatively narrow legislation in that this is specifically about the establishment of technological universities.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: It is a matter that can certainly be discussed. As I said, other Bills are coming down the tracks in regard to this whole sector. This is an example of one of the areas where I said at the outset that some of the proposed amendments relate to the entire sector and that it would not be appropriate to have what they propose apply only to technological universities and not to the other...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: If I can intervene, I would certainly be disposed towards accepting that Opposition members could put forward amendments on Report Stage.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: I was making a general point that amendments proposed to this legislation should be applicable across the sector. It would be more appropriate to first have a consultation with the sector and to ensure then that we can amend various other items of legislation. It might be easier to do it in a further piece of legislation rather than try to tag on to this legislation issues that are relevant...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: I will comment on Report Stage.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: The amendments relate to the membership of governing authorities and the various bodies that should be included. The joint committee conducted pre-legislative scrutiny on this Bill and there was significant discussion on the issue of how the governing bodies should be constituted. One of the principles is that they should not be too large so that they can be effective in terms of size....

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: We will come to amendments I have put forward relating to interim arrangements later. One of the reasons there is a merger before full university status is granted is to ensure it is genuinely one institution on day one of becoming a technological university. This is preferable to having two or three separate institutions merging afterwards. The intention is to ensure they become a unified...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: We considered all of the recommendations, including the recommendation that we should consider the composition of the body in regard to governance issues generally. There have been many different proposals in these amendments regarding different bodies that should be represented.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: The competency-based approach is what we seek.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: We will have a look at that before Report Stage. I have provided a general response in the context that we have had a number of different proposals. Also, the amendments before us today seek different kinds of representation. We must be conscious of the size of the governing body and ensure we have the various competencies required. However, I understand the point being made by the Chair.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: Page 23 of the Bill, which relates to subsection 25(3), states:Before appointing members under subsection (1)(g) the governing body shall agree with An tÚdarás the competencies required of such members relating to areas such as business, enterprise, finance, law, corporate governance, human resources, community organisation or other areas relevant to the functions of the...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: This section reflects the relevant provisions of the Universities Act 1997, so we are trying to be consistent across the sector.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: I have responded. It is helpful that the Deputies have indicated what their amendments on Report Stage are likely to be about.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: It is important to know what amendments will be proposed, so I will not comment on them now. My concern about the terms "quality assurance system" and " European standards and guidelines" is that they are not clearly defined. Their insertion would create legal uncertainty in that regard. The relevant legislation - the Qualifications and Quality Assurance (Education and Training) Act 2012 -...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: This relates to the charter.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: Rather than introduce the requirement that technological universities alone should have a charter, we intend to address this issue in a separate higher education reform Bill, the general scheme of which is to be published this year. This will allow time for broad consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, including students, governing bodies, management and academic staff, on the...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: This legislation is primarily designed to facilitate the consortia - the three that are up and running and a fourth that has indicated an interest - in moving forward. However, there are broader issues across the sector. The higher education reform Bill, which is being worked on, seems to be the appropriate venue for dealing with them.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: Power is already provided in the Universities Act 1997 to charge fees. The same wording is being used in this legislation. I am aware of the need for a broad debate on the funding of education. The report on the matter is almost complete and will be the topic of discussion at a future date. It should be noted that while universities have authority under legislation to set their own fees,...

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: Does the Deputy suggest, for example, that international students should not pay fees? There is a broad discussion to be had on fees generally. Whether fees should be eliminated completely is not a matter we can decide today.

Committee on Education and Social Protection: Select Sub-Committee on Education and Skills: Technological Universities Bill 2015: Committee Stage (14 Jan 2016)

Jan O'Sullivan: I understand the group is to have one more meeting on the report, following which it will be presented to me.

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