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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: There are 38 centres now but there were more. Some are owned by the State where the services are contracted in and others are commercially-owned. How many are commercially-owned?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The service does not have enough capacity in those.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: No, in all of the centres.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Let us leave that for now. We have 517 people taking up hotel beds.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: We have 5,980 people in direct accommodation, either commercially-owned or State-owned premises. How many of those are children? Will Mr. O'Driscoll provide a breakdown showing how long they have been there? This has come up repeatedly, including in the McMahon report. I will get to chapter 6 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report of 2015, which deals with this subject and...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: That is in hotels. How many are in direct accommodation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: How many of those have been given status and cannot move on in their lives?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: There are 729 children who have received status one way or another and cannot move out.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I am sure that is the case but there is a major housing crisis.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that but all of this was foreseeable. Is that not the case? It was foreseeable that asylum seekers would get status and would move out to get on with their lives.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: At the moment, we have a system that is clearly in crisis. How much is it costing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Is that for 2018 or 2019?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: We were looking at the 2017 accounts when the allocation was €67 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: The figure increased from €67 million to €77 million and will be between €95 million and €100 million this year. There are 729 children who have status and should not be in direct provision. Let us return to chapter 6 of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report, which deals with procurement and management of contracts for direct provision. At the time, he...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: If I am wrong at any point, I ask Mr. O'Driscoll to correct me. It was a question of getting value for money. The Comptroller and Auditor General was highlighting that it was not going to procurement for private providers but that the Department was going through a process of inviting expressions of interest and so on before negotiating an agreement. He pointed out clearly in that chapter...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: When did it change it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: Why did the Department wait until now? The recommendation was made in 2015 and it is now 2019. The Department is only now using procurement when this issue was raised by the Comptroller and Auditor General a long time ago.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: When did the Department move to tenders previously for direct provision?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: No, I understand all of this. Correct me if I am wrong but there is a process for State-owned centres, where that is contracted. It is done by procurement and companies or people are brought in to run the services. Then there is direct provision which is not done by procurement and the Department enters into a negotiated agreement. That issue was raised back in 2015. I have moved on from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality
(4 Apr 2019)

Catherine Connolly: We all know that. We have heard all this before and we have read the reports. I know the changes the McMahon report recommended. The Ombudsman has reported on the issue. I am specifically talking about how one ensures there is value for money if the Department is not using procurement.

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