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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: As is the case in the normal processing of legislation, the explanatory memorandum will probably bear a date which is the date when the Bill was initially circulated. It will have changed significantly in its composition since then.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Some of the numbers have been changed. I would certainly be happy to provide Senator Norris with a note as to where the memorandum corresponds and does not correspond with the Bill as amended by the Dáil.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Yes.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The Senator might be more familiar with this than me.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: This is an embarrassment according to Senator McDowell. It is an embarrassment to go through a selection process. This is really what we are saying here.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Senator McDowell described it as an embarrassment and this is the nub of the argument.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: It might be noted that the Senator's guests have left.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Well, they are no longer here.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: If I could intervene briefly it might be of assistance to Senator Norris. I very much agree with what Senator Norris is saying and would like the opportunity of engaging with him in some detail on the amendment. However, we are not dealing with the amendment.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The amendment is No. 83a under section 44. If there was any means by which we could move on to section 44 I would be very happy to take Senator Norris's points on board. I agree with him that we should discuss the amendment but I would be out of order if I replied to his exhortations on an amendment to which we are precluded from addressing.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Yes, but I would ask the Leas-Chathaoireleach once again to exercise his discretion ------

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: -----to allow us.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: It is a question of whether we are in or out of order.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The Senator's proposal is to add the words ", and notwithstanding the provisions of section 37", to the introductory part of what would be section 38, with the aim of reversing what the Seanad has just agreed to in section 37 on the basis that it stands part of the Bill. The section disapplies the various provisions of chapters 1 and 2 in Part 7.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: No. It disapplies the various provisions of chapters 1 and 2 in Part 7 in the process set out in section 44 which concerns the recommendation arrangements for the three most senior judicial positions. In other words, the proposed addition of the words ", and notwithstanding the provisions of section 37" by the Senator and others would ensure, conversely, that the provisions of section 38...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Of course he or she is entitled to due consideration. That would take place under the basis of this Bill. I think Senator McDowell addressed his real issue when he said it would be embarrassing for certain people to have to endure a selection process. To my mind, that forms the basis of much of the opposition coming from Senators.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The word Senator McDowell used was "embarrassing".

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The Senator may well consider it to be demeaning, but I do not. Equally, I would not consider it to be an embarrassment. That is where there is a real divergence of opinion between Senators and the Government. In any event, I remain firmly of the view that the particular demands and requirements of senior judicial positions warrant serious consideration being given to a process that can be...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The last time we considered this Bill, we discussed the proposed disapplication of certain provisions to certain senior posts. I accept Senator McDowell's point that this is significant and important. I have already indicated this evening, as I did on the last occasion, that I intend to bring forward an amendment on Report Stage as a solution to the position of the most senior appointments....

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (12 Dec 2018)

Charles Flanagan: You are wielding the sword on both edges.

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