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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: It is very important and the Chair will have to give some credit.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: We are being fair.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: It is undermining our respective roles as shadow spokespersons on children and youth affairs that the most menial of amendments are rejected on the basis that it is stated somewhere else. It is not stated in this section, so that is why we have sought to give clarity to it. If the Minister is not prepared to accept this amendment, there is hardly any point in this exercise.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: The Minister indicated she was only considering amendments which would make a material difference or give clarity to the text. This amendment does the latter. It is not a small thing. It relates to the power of the Minister to give direction to the agency when it should be the board of the agency.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: If the word "chairperson" is adequate rather than "chairperson of the board", I will accept that.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I move amendment No. 36: In page 35, subsection (5), line 41, after “functions” to insert the following:“and must be in accordance with section 8 and section 9.”.I seek to add the words “and must be in accordance with section 8 and section 9” to the end of section 47(5), which currently reads: "A direction given by the Minister under subsection (1)...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I could be invited to say something I would not want to put on the record.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: The amendment is done and dusted.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I move amendment No. 38: In page 36, between lines 10 and 11, to insert the following subsection:“(4) A direction given by the Minister under subsection (1) shall not interfere with the exercise of professional judgement in a particular case in the performance by the Agency of its functions and must be in accordance with section 8 and section 9.”.We are taking section 47(5) and...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I move amendment No. 43: In page 42, between lines 25 and 26, to insert the following subsection:“(16) A service provider shall operate in compliance with section 9 where applicable.”.The section deals with the arrangements with service providers. There are a number of references in its 15 subsections to requirements on the service provider to comply with requests under section...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: The subsections referred to by the Minister do not suggest that they will do what she claims or believes. Section 56(13) states: The Minister may prescribe requirements in respect of--(a) the expenditure incurred by the Agency in the provision of services by service providers, and (b) the provision of those services by service providers".Section 56(15) states:In this section “service...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: We will resubmit the amendment.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I seek clarification. We are speaking in section 59 about assistance for voluntary bodies. The understanding legally and in other legislation is the word "person" has the same equal understanding in law. Will the Minister cite other legislation particular to this understanding, either in the area of children's interests or any other the Minister can share with us?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: We can only accept the Minister's assurance this is the case.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: The Minister is proposing to delete section 59(8), which refers to "voluntary body" as meaning a person who is involved in a "service supplemental to services provided by the Agency". This is to contract out the function, or is that the same net understanding?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I accept the amendment.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I will comment before the Minister responds. The Minister has already indicated that because HIQA is directly responsible to the Minister for Health and the HSE, she would not be able to incorporate it in the responsibility vis-à-vis children's services, in whatever manifestation that may be. Would the Minister for Health not also have a difficulty in the crossing over of certain areas...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: I might not have put it very well, but I do not agree with Deputy Troy's amendment. I do not believe it should have the oversight for which he argues, for the reasons outlined by the Minister. My particular concern is not the specific argument Deputy Troy presents in terms of an oversight role, but that I believe HIQA has a cross-over role in respect of the various service providers that...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: That was very convoluted exposition. It was the most technical we have heard yet. I am concerned because all of that gobbledegook could be-----

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Child and Family Agency Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (24 Oct 2013)

Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: -----to make it more difficult for some of us to understand exactly what is at play here. The bottom line regarding amendment No. 63 is that the Minister is proposing to delete subsection (2), lines 36 to 39 which state: "The functions vested in the Family Support Agency by or under section 4, with the exception of the paragraphs (i) or (j) of subsection (1) of that section, of the Family...

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