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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Significant

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It is very useful and we should ensure that the Committee on Communications, Climate Action and Environment has a copy of this, if it has not been provided with it already.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: At what point is commercial sensitivity not an issue? That is, presumably, why those numbers that have been redacted. They would be quite interesting and useful to know. We are only guessing otherwise. There are fairly stark comments made here as well. This should find its way into the report that we do. Where are we with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: This is a side issue but I got a reply to a parliamentary question yesterday on the national broadband plan. It may be useful as it came up with Deputy MacSharry in a different context last week in relation to KPMG. The reply stated that KPMG is an adviser appointed by the Department to give specialist advice on the national broadband plan and it continues to do so. The Department is aware...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It just strikes me as-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: We had the Secretary General from the Department of Health before this committee, and he told us that he did not use the same company that audits the Department - I cannot remember who it was - because he did not want even a perceived conflict.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Exactly, and here we have another Department taking a contrary view. Even a perceived conflict of interest is problematic. I have serious concerns that we need to be looking at. I do not know where one frames this but there is most definitely a perceived conflict of interest when the only remaining bidder is audited by KPMG. KPMG are providing advice to the Department on specialist,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: With regard to Departments doing their budgets and having certainty, are timelines applied for the conclusion of this type of claim? Is it normal for claims to be completed the following year?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I want to pick up on the 95% cost certainty. The difference is a sizeable amount of money. I remember some discussion about there being a gigantic underestimate with regard to cabling. That would not account for the amount of money involved here. This will tell us something about the flaws in the tendering process. It would be useful to explore this because that is where there is a degree...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Is that the pattern of how the company operates in Holland as opposed to how it operates in Ireland, or is there a weakness in the system here?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Is the same fallout happening in Holland?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I am with the Chairman on that. However, the second point I would make is that this is about European countries competing for contracts above a certain value. There is one company which seems to be winning a large number of public contracts. The criticism is that it comes in low and then adds extras. Are we handling the tendering process differently in this country and is that then being...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: That is not really the point. I might not be making myself clear.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Are there weaknesses in the system here which expose us further? Would this company do exactly the same in its home jurisdiction?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Ireland is a small country and does not have the specialist expertise its public sector that Germany might have, particularly on foot of its advanced infrastructure and historical experience in rolling out and delivering contracts of this nature. Are we more exposed? Is there a weakness in our procurement process that would require us to adopt a different type of infrastructure...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: There are other issues with that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It is really important that we know who this entity is and its ability to fund and deliver a project. Knowing who the entity is will tell us this. If a firm goes in for a tender to build schools it has to say what its turnover was in the past three years and what its form is. This seems to be absent. It is critical that we know who the bidders are. The inclusion of subcontractors is a...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: This is an individual case. People who have had to tender for something have quite a forensic knowledge, because it is not a minor deal to put together a tender for a large project, and would likely have a great deal more detail than the average person. I would be cautious about dismissing - we are not doing that - something because somebody is upset that he or she did not get a contract....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (13 Jun 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Did we not agree the last day to write to him about how this issue had arisen and to ask from whom he had received the information in question? I understood we had agreed to take that course of action.

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