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Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: It is not fair if he is engaging with one side and not the other. At least he could have come back to me and told me he did not want to meet.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I accepted the result last May.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: The Minister first put aside €12 million. Now it is €50 million, emergency intervention excluded. We have a funding crisis in our health service. As far as I am concerned, the Minister is scaring the public to use their money, which means that some of these abortions may not be urgent or necessary. Under the Minister's watch, we have record hospital waiting lists, the...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I support the review. Five years is too long. I would prefer to see a period of two to three years. I agree with Deputy Tóibín that the more information we have, the better.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: This amends the definition of a woman's health to include her social well-being, but it is not defined in law and would seem to allow abortion after 12 weeks on virtually unlimited social grounds.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: The amendment would allow a fatal foetal abnormality to be defined as one where a death occurs at any point after birth. That would dramatically broaden the scope of the section and I cannot support it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: The Minister keeps referring to a letter. Is there any chance of getting a copy of it? I am not a member of this committee but am very anxious to keep abreast of what is happening. The Minister has said repeatedly that he is going to keep the committee informed but many of us pro-life Deputies are not on the committee as such. Is there any chance of getting a copy of the letter to which...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: It is just that this letter keeps coming up and I would love to see it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: Will someone forward a copy to me?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: To be honest, I was not actually going to say anything but the more people talk, the more confusing it gets. It was said earlier that the extraordinary today will be the ordinary tomorrow. I do not believe that. With regard to a patient in an ambulance or hospital, to me extraordinary life-sustaining measures means the best available there and then based on the experience of the people...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: This is a gruesome amendment. At present the Bill requires that two doctors examine a pregnant woman before approving an abortion due to the risk to life or health. If it was a medical consultation this would not happen. We are now saying that a person can have an abortion having spoken to two doctors over the phone. If that was my wife, my daughter or another woman, I would want her to...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I am not here to scaremonger. When someone says "examine" the pregnant woman, to me that means physically examining a woman. If we change this to "medical consultation", is the Minister telling me that two doctors will not ring a pregnant woman, talk to her and see her physically at all? Will the Minister confirm that will not happen?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I will withdraw that protest. At the end of the day, the main concern here is the woman. As I told the committee, to me "examine" and "medical consultation" are two different things. If the Minister, however, is telling me that the woman will be physically seen by the consultant, then I am happy enough.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: The phrase "There is a risk to the life, or of serious harm to the health, of the pregnant woman" is used in amendment No. 46. Does the Minister not think-----

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: Amendment No. 51 would require doctors to certify that it was necessary to save life or health. The current wording is that "it is appropriate to carry out the termination of a pregnancy" to save life and health. The amendment would be an improvement on the Bill, as it stands, and deserves our support.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I oppose the amendment. This would delete the requirement that the termination be performed by an obstetrician who originally examined the woman and gave a certification of risk to life or health. It would allow the termination to be performed by any medical practitioner, not necessarily an obstetrician, so I will oppose it.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (6 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: In regard to the upcoming meeting, as the Minister is aware neither I nor any of the Deputies with whom I have tabled amendments are members of the health committee. May I also attend the meeting?

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I will be supporting amendment No. 146. Information and informed consent require fair and factual information to be given to a woman before termination. That is all I want to say about No. 146. The Minister has his mind made up already and I do not think he will move on any of these amendments at all. When the Minister was speaking on amendment No. 146, he referenced a few examples in...

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: Let me speak, please. It is okay for the Minister to get examples from the UK but it is not okay for us to get examples from the UK.

Select Committee on Health: Health (Regulation of Termination of Pregnancy) Bill 2018: Committee Stage (Resumed) (8 Nov 2018)

Peter Fitzpatrick: I was giving examples of the UK yesterday. What is the difference? I am trying to say that the Minister should listen to us the same way we listen to him.

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