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Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: I will not go on forever about this because it is not a germane or serious issue, but I do not understand how the costs of administering a policy could possibly be that onerous. What insurance do these companies continue to provide for a policy that has been discontinued, to use the Minister of State's words? Do they, out of the goodness of their hearts, decide to continue some insurance—

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: There may be life cover because I think that is principally what is intended here. The life assurance policy in most cases will mature when the individual dies. Where does the continuance of insurance come into play if the individual is dead? The individual is dead, the relative does not claim for five years, so what possible additional costs can there be to the assurance company? What...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: We are not getting anywhere on this.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: As Senator Quinn pointed out this morning, the clear assumption seems to be that the notice will be sent out purely by ordinary post. Is it possible to develop the Bill in some way to allow for notice to be given in a variety of ways, whether by fax, e-mail or whatever, provided of course that there is an acknowledgement or clarity of receipt? I know that the definition section describes...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: I have no doubt the insurance industry was less than delighted with the Bill and I am sure departmental officials had interesting negotiations with it and that this is the compromise they reached. The underlying principle is very simple – companies are holding money that does not belong to them and whatever the amount might be, it should be transferred to the fund and available to be...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: Is that Royal Liver?

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: I thank the Minister of State for his very informative response. It is horrific that one company could hold 500,000 policies with values of less than €500. Taken to its extreme, the company could hold up to €250 million that does not come within the scope of this Bill. It is hardly surprising that many of the unclaimed policies are small as they are the ones most likely to be forgotten...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: If the Minister of State has the information available to him, perhaps he will let us know how many extant policies there are? I assume he does not have information for each company but can he tell us how many policies above €500 in value the company mentioned has? This might give us some sense of where we are drawing the line.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: These companies are trying to have it every which way, which is hardly surprising because that is their business. They tell us that they can guestimate the number of policies with proceeds of under €500, to which this does not apply, but they will not have an estimate of the number of other policies with higher proceeds until such time as the Act comes into play. What they are really saying...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: I receive a huge amount of interesting stuff in my pigeonhole by virtue of the coincidence of names with the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. I endorse the amendment; it makes common sense. It has one very obvious advantage. A notice in a newspaper appears on one day and is gone, whereas a notice posted on a website is there constantly and is obviously more accessible to people...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: In that case the Minister should accept the amendment.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: I support Senator Quinn. His case is transparently a good one. My understanding of the wording of the amendment is that the Senator is not suggesting we substitute the requirement to place the notice in the newspapers, but that we supplement it. One could specify that the provision would only apply in the event that insurance companies have websites. Clearly, however, they already do.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: What is the problem with accepting the amendment?

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: The notion that adding an additional half page to a website will increase costs is ludicrous.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: Excellent.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: While the Minister of State consults his official, let me make a slightly different argument. Am I correct in saying that, in respect of the section to which we have just agreed, section 7, it would be open to the Minister in any event to effectively vary, by regulation, the way in which the news can be given? Effectively, he or she could amend the legislation and provide for the amendment...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: The section refers to the notice being in the prescribed form. What does the Minister of State believe will be required by virtue of that formulation?

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: It does not state that. Obviously, we can guess what would be involved because I presume it will entail the procedure somebody would have to follow but it states the notice shall be in the prescribed form or in a form which should contain certain information, etc. I assume Senator Quinn is saying there should be a notice on the website similar to what would appear in the newspapers.

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: There is some merit in the amendment, although we need not require insurance companies to have precise numbers. If a notice appeared stating there are 500,000 unclaimed policies, rather than just a formal statutory notice, ancillary publicity from radio or television would result. While I accept that there will not be a precise number by October this year, the undertakings will have a clear...

Seanad: Unclaimed Life Assurance Policies Bill 2002: Committee Stage. (12 Feb 2003)

Derek McDowell: A later section empowers the inspectors to provide certain statistics. Would it be the intention that such information would appear on a regular basis? It might have the same effect. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

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