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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: The banks nearly charge customers if they have any money to deposit nowadays.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I wish to discuss the debt to GDP ratio. I know we have a new calculation called GNI*. That is not how we are rated under the fiscal compact treaty and the legislation that followed it. Where are we in the table? What is our debt to GDP ratio?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Given that, we have the capacity to borrow when we get to that point for capital projects. Is that the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I am glad Mr. McCarthy said it is astronomical because we got a report earlier from the Department of Finance noting, but not concurring with, our concern about the size of our national debt. It is astronomical.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I want to pursue another associated line. The officials have identified climate change as a risk to the economy. When Mr. McCarthy was before the committee previously he told us that by 2021 we could face fines of in the region of €600 million annually. The Government recently indicated that the fines would be in the region of €150 million. Will Mr. McCarthy explain the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: We are going to miss our targets. We know that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Was Mr. McCarthy €450 million out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Can we get something on this?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It is certainly a better number.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: We are missing our targets and buying credits but not dealing with the underlying issues. Is that right?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: This is relevant to capital spending and ensuring those fines do not accelerate. We saw that the Moneypoint power plant was part of the reason for the improvement in our emissions numbers last year. That was because there was a breakdown at the plant. Since our underlying figures on emissions are not improving, we cannot be sure that we can avoid exposure to greater fines. The way to deal...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I completely agree with Mr. Moran that it is not an easy subject but carbon taxes are not the only approach.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: It not the only approach because if we built an interconnector, for example, in Dublin, we may well cut emissions from transport. That would be one projects we would get a big gain from. There is value in spending to save, although it is an expensive project.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Certainly, it is difficult for people who are struggling as it is. The report of the Comptroller and Auditor General identified the amount by which we are now marginally a net contributor to the European Union. A significant amount of our contribution is in respect of the Common Agricultural Policy. Brexit poses a particular risk there because the UK contributes approximately 16% of the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: What will be the magnitude of the contribution?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Is it €2 billion or €3 billion?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I know.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: That is the payment for 2019.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: Does the Department have projections-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Catherine Murphy: I thought he already did.

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