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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I will continue to respond accordingly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I will continue to point to the fact that we have seen a growth in living standards, more people back at work and we are making progress in tackling the issues to which the Deputy referred.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: What is Deputy Paul Murphy's intention regarding government?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not believe that it is. It is the case that the Commission is proposing a budget for European defence co-operation. That budget comes to €13 billion but this is across the lifetime of the MFF programme which will cost in excess of €1 trillion. There is a budget line for initiatives which might stimulate co-operation and research in European defence. It is a tiny...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: If the Deputy has figures from the Commission which show the budget is doubling, I am sure they are correct. However, I put it in the context that it is an exceptionally low share of a budget of more than €1 trillion over a seven-year period.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I accept there is an increase in the Commission's proposals. In the interests of completeness, the Deputy acknowledged what I did not in my opening statement, namely the Connecting Europe Facility which is in addition to the European Defence Fund. I will go back to my earlier point, however, about the share this occupies of the total MFF budget.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: It is not where I would put the increase. There are many different elements of the proposal about which I would have a different view. Although there will be increases in programmes such as ERASMUS+, I would prefer larger increases in these areas. I have to accept, however, that for many of my EU colleagues their defence status and efforts to ensure greater efficiency in investing in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: We will only outline our position on individual lines of funding as the negotiations advance and we are a long way away from getting to a critical point on that. In the interest of clarity, though, it is unlikely we will propose the elimination of those lines from the MFF because I know how important those areas of activity are to other member states.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I never interjected the language of happiness into this matter. There are other priorities that the Government and I will be expected to achieve in the overall MFF such as on the Cohesion Funding and the CAP. As part of us making progress on that, I accept it is likely there will be a stream of the future MFF that will be set aside for the European Defence Fund and the Connecting Europe...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not have enough information on that matter to offer an informed comment. I am sure this is an issue that has been raised with the Minister of State at the Department of Defence and the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade. It is a matter for them more than me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not see this as being part of the so-called austerity agenda to which the Deputy refers. A criticism that was correctly made of the eurozone during the crisis was that it did not have the instruments or policy tools available to help individual member states to respond to the economic shocks or difficulties they were facing. The Commission is now bringing forward two different tools to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: The first point to make is that many of the other funding streams to which the Deputy refers also have conditionality.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Cohesion funding has conditionality attached.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Does Deputy Murphy accept that it has conditionality?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Okay, we have made progress on that. Let us say Irish taxpayers' money is going into the reform support programme or the European investment stabilisation tool. Would the Deputy support the spending of that money in other countries with no conditionality?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Okay, but in many cases what we would be talking about are reforms that have already happened in Ireland. Changes have happened in Ireland and our money is being used to create these tools. In that context, if change has happened in our country then in return for the Irish taxpayer making funding available for these tools, is it not reasonable to ask other countries to go through the same...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: What we have here is an ideological difference on this issue. There is a difference of ideology. The Deputy accepts the fact that if Irish taxpayers' funding is to be made available, certain conditions must be laid down for accessing that funding. I think the Deputy accepts that point -----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: Deputy Murphy acknowledged a moment ago that in the context of a lot of EU funding streams, certain things have to be done in order to access the funding. Is that the case or not?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: We are going to go around in circles on this because lots of, if not most, funding streams have criteria attached to them. These new tools are based on the principle that if money is going to be released - this is our money which will no longer be available to us to be used at home - then criteria will have to be met to access it. Deputy Murphy differs from me on that overall principle. I...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: European Union-Related Matters: Discussion with Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform (12 Jun 2018)

Paschal Donohoe: No.

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