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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: They finished up in the least affordable way forward because they wound up in a poorly regulated private rental sector or some of them became homeless. That is what actually happened. The Central Bank failed to intervene, or, if it did intervene, it may have actually added to the problem. It resulted in a situation in which those people who are still in their homes, when the loans have...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: We get all of that. I know what that is about, but this is a different point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know people who had interest rates of-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Makhlouf is saying people have the same rights who had a 2.5% interest rate and are now paying nearly 7%. That is no right. They have the right to be trapped and ensnared by the vulture fund. What is going to be done to help those people?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The specific question I am asking is about interest rates.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Can the Central Bank influence it? Obviously, the bank has engagements with these funds. In those discussions, are there opportunities to raise that issue and try to influence it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: One moment please. I do not want Mr. Makhlouf to misunderstand what I am saying to him. The facts are these. They are buying loans for 30% or 40% of the original value but are charging interest on the full amount. The business model is fantastic. One could not make it up.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is a wonderful business model.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: How can they lose? How can these vulture funds lose?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Where the Central Bank ascertains that these firms are doing very well, have healthy, substantial margins and have extremely healthy balance sheets, will it say to them at that point that they must cut back a little on the fat because Joe Public, the borrower, is suffering unduly?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Have you done that? I am not asking you to speculate.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: If you find that they are overcharging unduly, will you use your power as Governor of the Central Bank to try to curtail that and ease the pressure on borrowers?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Thank you for that. That concludes our hearing. I thank the witnesses from Revenue, the Department and the Central Bank for being here this morning and for preparing documents and briefing notes for this meeting. I also thank the representatives from the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General for attending and assisting here today. We have asked for some follow-up information....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The public business before us this afternoon is as follows: minutes, accounts and financial statements, correspondence, work programme and any other business. The first item is the minutes of the meeting of 30 March 2023, which were circulated to members. Unless any members wish to raise any issue in the minutes, are they agreed? Agreed, and as usual, they will be published on the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I thank Mr. McCarthy. Before members raise any issues with Mr. McCarthy, I take it that we can agree and note the listing of accounts and financial statements? Agreed. As usual, the listing of accounts and financial statements will be published. It is good to see all four coming up with a clean-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: We will move on to correspondence. As previously agreed, items that are not flagged for discussion for this meeting will continue to be dealt with in accordance with the proposed actions that have been circulated. Decisions taken by the committee in respect of correspondence are recorded in the minutes of the committee meetings and published on the committee's webpage. The first category...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is the Deputy proposing we would raise this with Mr. Watt to ask if the Department is looking at this?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. I thank the Deputy. We will ask for that along with being kept apprised of the other matter of the review of the additional charges.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy is right to raise that. It is a very valid issue. There is something I have come across that Deputy Burke may have encountered too. Where the care required by a patient cannot be provided through the fair deal scheme, the patient is transferred to a nursing home or nursing unit belonging to the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy has raised in the past that there are higher costs per patient because the patients in general have far higher levels of need and dependency and need a great deal more support and care. We will look for that also in the correspondence. Is the Deputy happy with that?

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