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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Does the Central Bank currently have any live licence applications from potential new entrants in the mortgage market in Ireland?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: It is also a tiny market where we have a huge percentage of tracker mortgages and we have those who on variable rates, very many of whom are not in a position to switch because of negative equity and so on, and the amount of new lending is very modest.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Mr. Sibley mentioned that there have been an engagement but has the Central Bank applications from new entrants to lend in the mortgage market?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: The Central Bank representatives should give a fuller answer and explain that interest rate caps are in place in certain sectors. That should be explained.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: I just have a few questions on the discussion that evolved.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: The discussion evolved, so I avail of that flexibility if I may.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: I ask Mr. Sheridan about the issue of the credit servicing legislation. He wrote to me in August when I raised my concerns on that with him and made it clear in his letter that the preferred approach of the Central Bank was that the loan owners would be regulated. That would be the subject of the legislation. It was a policy decision of Government to go down the route that was travelled in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Can Mr. Sheridan give me examples of who they are? They hold 26,000 mortgages. Who are the retail credit firms?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Some of them would have been sub-prime.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: They are fully regulated entities.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: However, they are in a different category to credit institutions like banks.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: It is a separate licence to be a retail credit firm.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: If that is the case why then was the Central Bank of the view and why does it continue to be of the view that the actual loan owners should be regulated directly?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: But it is not ideal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Can Mr. Sheridan clarify for me whether there are any restrictions now on who can buy a bundle of loans? If I were a wealthy individual, could I buy a bundle of mortgages and engage Pepper as a credit servicing firm to administer them and act as the contact point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: If one carries that over to the SME sector, it opens up all sorts of issues. We have had a lot of loans bought by unregulated funds from NAMA, the IRBC special liquidator and the banks. Those business loans are now owned by funds which will churn them. They will turn them over within a three to five-year horizon. My concern is vulture funds to one extent but this has played out in other...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: The example I will give may be an extreme one. If somebody takes a loan from a bank which is subsequently sold to a fund and sold on several more times, it could end up in the hands of a semi-organised crime gang. This gang may then appoint a credit servicing firm as an intermediary and instruct it to shut down all the businesses involved and call in the loans. This can be done provided it...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: When the legislation was being introduced we put it to the Government that the owner of the loan should always be a regulated entity. The argument used by the Government was that such a requirement would restrict the origination of new loans from non-bank lenders and with the sources of finance in the economy broadening, which is a good thing, it would cause problems if the entities involved...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: Is it fair to state that from a data point of view, the Central Bank does not have any oversight of loans that are sold on more than once? In other words, a fund could sell on a bundle of loans to somebody else and the Central Bank would not even know about it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Central Bank (Variable Rate Mortgages) Bill 2016: Central Bank of Ireland (8 Dec 2016)

Michael McGrath: On the tracker address programme, when will the Central Bank announce the outcome of the programme on an industry wide basis?

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