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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be half a dozen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. From the point of view of the Committee of Public Accounts that is very disappointing. All of us here, including the officials from the Central Bank, are all public servants. We have a job to do and we need to do it diligently on behalf of the public who put us here. This practice is very disappointing. I thank Mr. Makhlouf for that. I accept his explanation for not being here....

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: None of them was present. I now call the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, for his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I now invite Mr. Makhlouf to make his opening statements. He has five minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy Munster, who has 15 minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: We realise that the issue is not one of the items listed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Obviously the Governor knows it is a major question. I ask the Governor to ask one of his officials to provide the figure before the end of the meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes, okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy has gone over time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: People are paying 5%, 6% or 7% in interest. People did not change their situation voluntarily and the loan book was sold to a vulture fund. That is the concern. Did Mr. Makhlouf give the figure to the Deputy of 3% of €60 billion? Some €60 billion was on deposit with the European Central Bank, ECB. Therefore, €1.8 billion is the figure. Because Deputy Hourigan has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think the point the Deputy is making is that there were not the reserves there to meet those potential liabilities or liabilities as they may have been. Deputy Devlin is next but Deputy McAuliffe is switching with him and going first.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I share Deputy McAuliffe's frustration but there is a clear division between the Oireachtas and the Four Courts. That division is there for good reason. Unfortunately, this responsibility has been-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I just want to confirm that it was not already known. The first I learned of it was on the Tuesday of that week.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I am just providing clarity as Chair of the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The first notice I had of it was on the Tuesday.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Can the Secretary General of the Department give the same guarantee that the leak did not come from the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: He has no awareness.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not see that the Department has any motive to do it. I agree with that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I had a view on it before I asked that question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not see the Department as having the motive. That is not to say that I confirm it did not come from someone in the Department, but it would be unusual for the Department to have leaked the information, given that it would be working against itself.

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