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Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Of course, he will have had an opportunity since then of seeing the manner in which these issues are discussed at Dáil committees, without rendering a chairperson of a committee or any of its members unable to proceed on certain matters. I merely make the point, as I said earlier, that there is nothing new-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I welcome the Senator's comment but on the last occasion he described a similar type of provision as a "nonsense", which I assume he did, it did not transpire to be thus in the manner in which the various bodies have since engaged with appropriate or relevant Dáil committees, including joint committees. The sky did not fall in. I must come back to what I describe as the standard nature...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I am confident that the section in question will not amount to an obstruction or barrier to accountability. If we look at past experience, in practice, no restrictions were placed on accountability to Oireachtas committees by dint of something that might well be sub judicein the context of current court proceedings or is likely to give rise to a court dispute at an early future date. I do...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The Senator should not be worried. He cannot draw on any past experience in which this worry has materialised.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: This is not without precedent. This is a standard section that has been used in similar legislation in which agencies have been established. I am satisfied as to its appropriateness. The Senator has a long history of objecting to such sections. I acknowledge his right to do so.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: There are three scenarios here. The first is one where a matter has been decided by the courts and has been resolved, and that resolution has been established.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: The court will have established it. The second scenario is where a matter is before the courts. I ask Senators to accept the fact that where matters are before the courts they are sub judice. Senators might not like that on all occasions but I believe it is desirable. The third scenario is the one which Senator Norris uses as a blanket restriction on accountability for issues that may at...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I know-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: It does not say anything about the Workplace Relations Commission, WRC, either.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: It was a profitable one.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I want to say again that I do not envisage a situation where individual court cases will be the subject matter of a Dáil committee engagement, whether past or future, nor indeed do Senators. That is not the type of discourse that is envisaged when a chairman or CEO, in this case a chair, reports and is accountable to an appropriate Dáil committee. It is not envisaged that the...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: With respect, this is my concluding comment on this. Senator Norris has put his finger on a very alarming button by talking about the capacity of an Oireachtas committee to examine and, as he says, "investigate" a court case.I do not see circumstances where that would be desirable or where an Oireachtas committee should second-guess the courts. Senator Norris expressly referred to an...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: It is not desirable that an Oireachtas committee should hire and fire chairpersons, which is expressly the Senator's point.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Briefly.

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I make these brief comments in the context of my being accused, by some Government colleagues, of engaging in a filibuster-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I am conscious of this-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: Well-----

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I want to make two brief points. First, I will bring my colleagues back to the circumstances of section 22. Its purpose is not to examine expenditure nor to investigate the spending of public moneys. Those matters are provided for in section 21 and by the Committee of Public Accounts. That is appropriate, having regard to normal practice. It is also not the purpose of section 22 to...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: I thank Senator Norris. I go back to section 12, which places a firm obligation on the Minister to act by way of ensuring that the type of gaps referred to do not cause difficulty. The Minister, under section 12(1)(b)(i) will request the Public Appointments Service to proceed and trigger the process to facilitate a chair of the body. It would, of course, be undesirable for long periods to...

Seanad: Judicial Appointments Commission Bill 2017: Committee Stage (Resumed) (4 Oct 2018)

Charles Flanagan: With respect, it is time to draw the curtain on this section. We have heard scenarios mentioned that have little basis in reality when we speak about the sudden departure, resignation and incapacity of the chairperson during the months of July or August and the consequent parliamentary gridlock that will ensue with the non-availability of the chairperson to attend. We are merely talking...

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