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Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: That is correct.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: Yes, that is the total figure for the extraordinary amount required for the Presidency. For example, there was an increased level of travel in the first six months of last year. That figure refers to expenditure confined to 2013 so there will be a reduction for 2014.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: I will begin with Deputy McNamara's question. The Department has a policy of tendering for consultancy services. For example, consultancy services for the horse racing industry was were by Indecon. There is no arrangement for retired staff to be hired as consultants. One exception was made for good reason because the Department needed that individual's expertise. For example, retired...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: From time to time, we need to take on advice and consultancy to help us to redesign systems within the Department. My officials inform me that approximately 50% of this expenditure is for outside IT consultancy services and 50% for in-house work. We recruit people on temporary contracts to, for example, write code. They do not come cheaply but it is essential to take them on so that we can...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: The figure is some €10.5 million for IT outsourcing and contractors.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: Within our IT section we have people on short-term contracts who come in to write code and redesign systems. We are responsible for distributing €1.2 billion in direct payments and an additional €405 million this year under the rural development programme. That equates to a substantial structural requirement in terms of dependable IT systems. We are putting a system in place...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: They are employees while they are in the Department.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: They are.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: Yes, they come in and work on the systems.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: As I said, IT contractors make up €9.5 million of the total allocation. These are the people who come into the Department on short-term contracts, writing code and designing systems. The actual figure for IT outsourcing is €1.4 million. In other words, the vast bulk of the expenditure relates to the employment of IT experts who work with our teams in the IT department writing...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: We have a separate budget of some €6 million for the revised mapping, which comes under programme D.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: By putting in place better IT systems we save money in the long term by avoiding disallowances and fines. Ireland is receiving fewer disallowances than any other country within the EU because we have IT systems that work. Other countries have IT systems that have let them down. We are spending when we need to spend to make sure we maintain an IT structure that functions as it should for...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: Yes, they are expensive to hire.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: We cannot get the staff. Moreover, it does not make sense to employ people on a huge salary when they are required only for a specific project, such as redesigning an IT system.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: They would not make themselves available for permanent employment. That is how the marketplace works - the most highly-skilled IT people can pick and choose. It is a question of supply and demand; if one wants the best coders in the country, one has to pay them. Most of them have no interest in working in the Department on a long-term basis. They come in to redesign a system and train up...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: It is not an estimate. A photograph is used to arrive at the figure.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: The Deputy knows the answer to that question.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: The Deputy is merely grandstanding.

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: If Deputy Pringle wishes to pose other questions about ICT systems, we can provide him with detailed answers. We have nothing to hide and must invest in systems that will work, otherwise the cost we will incur in the long term will be much greater. In the context of Deputy Ó Cuív's comments on why we have not cut administrative and staffing levels to the same extent as in other...

Select Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: Estimates for Public Services 2014
Vote 30 - Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (Revised)
(21 Jan 2014)

Simon Coveney: The actual figure is 30%. In 2008 administration costs were €303 million; they are now €216 million.

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