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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Is that review available?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: That is fine. I thank Mr. Griffin. There is a crossover in this project with the same entities such as Granahan McCourt Capital, which owned Enet up to 2017. That is the same entity leading the national broadband plan consortium. It is useful to see how the previous project rolled out in respect of the risks with non-take-up, construction etc.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: If we look at some of Enet's accounts, we can see that dividends have been paid. I looked at the 2016 accounts and €6 million in dividends was paid to Granahan McCourt Capital. What is put in is one thing but what is taken out is another. I refer to what the companies make back. It is my understanding that we own the network.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: The contractors then manage the network and providers such as Eir and Sky, using the network, sell services to the consumer. If providers such as Eir or Sky do not see it as something on which they can make money, the services which the network can provide do not get sold to the consumer. Then we have lots of fibre and insufficient take-up from that fibre. That is a fair reflection of what...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: This is not like the ESB network being rolled out, when every house in the country was to be connected to it This is not an equivalent situation but one where it is down to retailers offering something people will buy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I am aware of a library, not in my own constituency, that has not taken it up because it is too expensive. If we are going to invest money to make us connected and fit for purpose and to ensure rural Ireland can perform to the best it can, the services provided must be attractive for people to take it up. Otherwise, there is a question mark over that investment.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I will. Given that it is the same entity, and the only remaining entity, involved in the current national broadband plan, the information from that report is incredibly important because this is a very expensive project. We do not know exactly how much it is going to cost, but amounts between €500 million and €3 billion have been mentioned. We know it is going to be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: How long does it take to do a pre-qualification test?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: The tendering process for the national broadband plan is under way. It started out being Enet which is now a partner and Granahan McCourt is the main entity. Subcontractors are also included as part of the consortium. Every time that changes, does it have to go through pre-qualification test?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: How long does it take to do a pre-qualification test?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: It is kind of like Lanigan's ball the way this particular consortium has changed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I said it was like Lanigan's ball, there have been that many changes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Enet is now a partner as opposed to a main consortium. Was a second pre-qualification test required given that Enet was leading it before?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I refer to the report prepared by Colm McCarthy. What happens when something like that comes in? It is a sizeable piece of work which obviously feeds into the information the Department has and must evaluate in the context of the broadband plan. What would be done with that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: I thought Mr. Griffin said the Department did not do a CBA but-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. There were lots of figures bandied about in the Dáil, including the claim that no one will be left behind and plenty of people see themselves in urban Ireland.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Can I leave that as a comment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Enet is wholesale. Is it appropriate that Enet should have a retail subsidiary called AirSpeed?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Competitively.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 29 - Department of Communications, Climate Action and Environment
Chapter 8 - Measures relating to Cyber Security
Chapter 9 - Energy Efficiency National Fund
(6 Dec 2018)

Catherine Murphy: Yes. Did Enet apply pressure in 2017? The contract was extended in March 2017, it was bought by the Irish Infrastructure Fund in July 2017 and due diligence was being done. Obviously Granaghan McCourt would have been aware that due diligence was being done because the information would be needed to do that. Was pressure put on the Department? The first contract did not expire until 2019...

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