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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: If everyone will bear with me, I have to read a declaration before I take the Chair. It takes a couple of seconds. I do solemnly declare that I will duly and faithfully, and to the best of my knowledge and ability, execute the office of Leas-Chathaoirleach of the Joint Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade without fear or favour, apply the rules as laid down by the House in an...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Thank you. The next speaker is Senator Joe O’Reilly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: I thank the witnesses for coming here this evening. They are incredibly impressive in their knowledge, delivery and how they try to convince people to do the right thing. I think Mr. O'Neill is particularly impressive. Mr. Liston and Mr. O'Neill both mentioned this. If the Government put forward and passed a Bill with services included in it and then were a court case to happen, which...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: So while people on the other side might say that this could be very complex, problematic or would not look good, it is actually quite simple and could be done very quickly-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: -----almost before it was even on the news.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: The ruling says "to prevent". I am now putting a counter-argument. Is there anywhere in the ruling where it says "to ban"?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: When Mr. Liston read out the quote, questions were asked about our country abiding by the ICJ ruling. Mr. Liston quoted correctly in terms of it being "to prevent" but then afterwards he constantly talked about a ban. The text does not say "ban". We know how lawyers work, they can use different words for different meanings. I find it interesting that when Mr. Liston speaks without quoting...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Can Mr. Liston see how other countries, that are sympathetic to Israel would say that the wording "to prevent" could mean, as members in the committee yesterday said, simply informing companies that they are not to do it and that is enough to prevent it? Can Mr. Liston see how other countries would make that argument? I do not agree with it, obviously, but can they see why other countries...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Mr. Liston said that in his view, introducing this without services would not abide by the ICJ ruling. I hope we will include services but either way, is it his view that we are the country closest to abiding by the ICJ ruling?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: My next question is for Senator Black. She and Mr. O'Neill have said numerous times that we should not make this political. Senator Black has acknowledged and knows that from the steps made behind the scenes in trying to build other countries' support and the domino effect of getting support from the bottom up. I am interested in her view on whether in this country it has become political....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (2 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Mr. Liston outlined the ICJ ruling and he read a quote from it regarding the prevention of dealing in any goods or services. I am sure Mr. Liston heard the contributions from the Department yesterday. The Department is aware that other countries see that wording differently and believe that they comply with the ruling in that "preventing goods and services" can mean different things. Is...

Seanad: An tOrd Gnó - Order of Business (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Irish foster carers play a vital role throughout our country in terms of caring for children and the most vulnerable. There are 3,600 foster carers in the country. Unfortunately, this is a reduction from 4,800 five years ago and there are a number of reasons for this. These 3,600 foster carers look after and protect 5,800 children in care. That is approximately 87% of children who need...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: I thank Professor Koutrakos and Professor Tridimas for their contributions. I now call on Ms Ní Ghrálaigh to give her opening statement.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Senator Higgins is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: There is a minute left if anyone else would like to come in.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: There are only Senators in the room and I am the only one who has not asked questions so I will take my seven minutes now and then, if everyone in the room agrees, we will do a second round of three minutes each. I hope the Deputies who have not spoken will then come back. I thank all the witnesses for being here and for giving their legal perspectives on the issue and on this very...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Regarding the ICJ ruling and the advisory opinion, some of the lines from it refer to abstaining "from entering into economic or trade dealings". Can this be interpreted as abstaining from entering into new dealings in trade? When it refers to taking "steps to prevent", we often hear it said in this committee that the ruling was to ban trade, but the wording is "to take steps to prevent"....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: In her opening statement, Ms Ní Ghrálaigh talked about whether services are included and stated, "It would transform the Bill from what risks being little more than window dressing into a truly impactful, precedent-setting piece of legislation." Has any country gone any further in terms of legislation to prevent goods and services in the occupied territories?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade: General Scheme of Israeli Settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territory (Prohibition of Importation of Goods) Bill 2025: Discussion (Resumed) (9 Jul 2025)

Garret Ahearn: Would this legislation, therefore, be a precedent already, even if it just included goods? I know it is not what you are calling for, but would it not already be a precedent?

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