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Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: What about a situation where pulmonary hypertension is present and the mother's life is threatened with immediate effect? Senators might wish to consult the website of the Mayo Clinic for information on what I am referring to here. In such cases, even when rapid and immediate medical treatment is given, the outcomes are not always life-saving. In the case of pulmonary hypertension and...

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: In fact, he and I have common ground on this particular point. Let us now take that argument and apply it to section 9, which refers to the risk of suicide. We have heard a great deal of talk about the threat of suicide, but what we are actually dealing with here is risk of suicide.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Amendment No. 16 relates to it. If we accept that suicidal risk is a legitimate grounds for termination then we accept the legitimacy of section 9; otherwise, we do not. I would contend that the difference between me and those who do not share my view relates essentially to our respective attitudes to mental health. Efforts to separate out the risk of suicide ground are a clear pointer to...

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: It is even worse if a psychiatrist said it because it indicates a paternalistic approach to psychiatric and mental health care which should have gone out with the straitjacket and walled asylums. One's position on this provision is very insightful in that it gives a good idea of where one stands vis-à-vis mental health and whether one believes mental illness is a real illness. I have...

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: I am referring to amendment No. 16.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Even if I did not believe that, it is the position set out in our Constitution. Those who hold a contrary position have little choice but to seek out a referendum to appeal the section. They should bear in mind, of course, that the people of Ireland have already spoken twice on this issue. There can be no doubt about the constitutional position. The bottom line is that those who would...

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Why?

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: The present leader of Fianna Fáil disagrees with him.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: A risk.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) (22 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Correct.

Seanad: An Bille um Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: An Cúigiú Céim - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Fifth Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Apart from Fianna Fáil destroying the country.

Seanad: An Bille um Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: An Cúigiú Céim - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Fifth Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Bring forward a referendum to abolish the Labour Party.

Seanad: An Bille um Dara Leasú is Tríocha ar an mBunreacht (Deireadh a chur le Seanad Éireann) 2013: An Cúigiú Céim - Thirty-second Amendment of the Constitution (Abolition of Seanad Éireann) Bill 2013: Fifth Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: They might change their minds after hearing the Senator.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: That is not section 7.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: It is most dispiriting to have to listen to this level of debate. This is the third time we have been through it.

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: The people whom Senator Ó Domhnaill dismisses as quacks or whatever he calls them, include the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists in the UK and the American Association of Obstetricians. These are the most renowned people working in the field. They state very clearly -----

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: There is constant cackling when a speaker says something that others do not agree with or do not accept. We are all looking for some respect in dealing with this matter rather than playing havoc-----

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: We are constantly playing the ad hominem argument in this House. Speakers play the man when they cannot think of something to put up as a reasonable argument. Does my point need proving? We are making the very best case for the abolition of this House, no question about it. I go home from these debates-----

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: Is it any wonder that I would vote for it? This is the sort of nonsense that passes for debate in this House. There is scant regard being paid to any evidence. We are talking about foetal pain which is a terrible and awful concept. We are being accused of not having compassion. Yet, the word, thalamus-limbic has not even been mentioned, which the highest authorities in the field of...

Seanad: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Report Stage (Resumed) and Final Stage (23 Jul 2013)

John Gilroy: If a foetus cannot feel pain for 23 weeks and Senator Burke has said that it is impossible to administer anaesthesia to a foetus at 16 weeks, why are we talking about an amendment that proposes 16 weeks? It might be reasonable to propose an amendment to administer anaesthesia at 22 weeks but it is preposterous to talk about 16 weeks. It is illogical, even by the Senator's own argument. If...

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