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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Breslin, as Accounting Officer for all expenditure in the health service, including, I would imagine, HSE expenditure, because the director general is only an accountable officer, read about the matter in The Irish Times.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is that a systemic failure?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is it a systemic failure?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: There was a pattern. It dates back to 2014, when the audit was first done, and when the circular was issued. At no point was the Department ever informed of any of that. Therefore, there was a pattern. What I am saying is that Mr. Breslin found out only when this became public. He found out not only when it became public but when it was a crisis for the HSE.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Exactly. Therefore, it has to be systemic. Like the director general, I am really frustrated with the public service because all of us here are dealing with and watching women in a very distressed state. Reference was made earlier to the poor woman on "Morning Ireland" this morning and to how harrowing her story was. We are here to ask questions on the women's behalf. These women were...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I expect Mr. Breslin, as a public servant, to be in a position to say this was a systemic failure. Everybody outside this place believes it was a systemic failure. It is an open-and-shut case. There is nobody in the real world who believes this was not a systemic failure, except Accounting Officers who are not prepared to use the words. I cannot understand why Mr. Breslin, as an...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Given what Mr. Breslin now knows, does he believe it was a systemic failure?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am going to press Mr. Breslin on this because I believe people watching and the women who are affected deserve an answer. Does Mr. Breslin believe it was a systemic failure?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Is that a "No" or a "Yes"?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: More fudge-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It is fudge, with respect. Mr. Breslin should be in a position to say, as would anyone with half a brain cell, that this was a systemic failure. However, for reasons which are very obvious, he is not in a position to say it. I find that deeply disturbing given what we are talking about here and given that we are dealing with grieving women who are very upset and who were let down by the...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I think that Mr. Breslin is hiding behind words.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Yes but Mr. Breslin is hiding behind the scoping inquiry.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That is what the civil servants are doing here.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I wish to put on the record my appreciation to Mr. Breen, one of the few Accounting Officers who has been exemplary in giving information and answering questions. If the same level of candour was shown by other Accounting Officers it would be very good for the public service. I very rarely say that about Accounting Officers when they come before this committee. Our job is to hold them all...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: In that report, at 29.2-----

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The reference is 29.2 which deals with the principal objectives of the State Claims Agency, the second of which is to "implement risk work programmes, including risk advisory services in State authorities with the aim of reducing the costs of future litigation against the State".

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What does the term "risk advisory services" mean?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: That would be my understanding too. In that context, I ask Mr. Breen to tell the committee how many cases are before the courts that are related to the misdiagnosis or misreading of these tests.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: What was the first case and in what year was that case?

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