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Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It is central to this issue.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I do not think that it is acceptable and will explain why. Mr. O'Brien has come to the committee weeks after the scandal frightened the women of Ireland and days after a number of the women affected have asked him to stand down from his position. From today, we know that Mr. O'Brien believes a number of individuals made mistakes, but he is not prepared to say who they are. Even when it is...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The same sequence again.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: No, I am asking if that is correct. In Mr. O'Brien's opinion, it is a systems failure, but in my opinion it is a systemic failure. Is that accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Can I make a small point?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: It was outrageously disingenuous of Mr. O'Brien to make such sweeping comments about the media. It is an outrageous comment given that his organisation has not been very quick to give good journalists information when they have sought it. It is not very good about giving information to the public. To make sweeping generalisations about the work of the media speaks volumes about Mr. O'Brien...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I have temporarily taken the Chair to allow Deputy MacSharry to ask questions. I remind members that we are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General and Ms Ruth Foley from his office. There are three organisations before us, including the Department of Health, represented by Mr. Jim Breslin, Secretary General and Accounting Officer, Mr. Tony Holohan, chief medical officer and Ms Mary...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I note at this point that even though the director general is no longer here, the next person in charge should be here. It is unacceptable that questions may be put which will not be answered because people still here are not in senior positions or are not responsible. The HSE is responsible for that, that is, in not ensuring that people who can answer questions are here. While the...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Does Mr. Breen want to say something?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: The Deputy's time is up, but I will allow him five more minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Mr. Breen wants to make a further comment. We will then go to the HSE, to be fair to the witness.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I am sorry, but from whose point of view?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will have to stop the Deputy.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I will come to Teachta Alan Farrell, even though I am next to speak. He wants to come in as he has somewhere to go. To follow on, Mr. Woods stated there was a disciplinary procedure in place in the HSE which was overseen by HR. Teachta Marc MacSharry asked what sanction was in place. The sanction is a procedure. Can Mr. Woods or another HSE official numbers - not names - of how many...

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Given that we have asked for Mr. Gleeson and a number of others from the HSE to attend next week, perhaps the head of HR with the executive should be invited as well.

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Earlier, I put questions to Mr. O'Brien about the memorandum the committee will now be furnished with and he was not in a position to talk about it without having it in front of him? Has the committee received it yet?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: My first question is for Mr. Breslin. I asked whether a copy of the memorandum had been sent to the Department. Mr. O'Brien was not sure whether it was sent but he had a sense that there was some communication. Is that a correct interpretation of what he said?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: Then I asked Mr. Breslin to what the phrase "some communication" referred and he said the Department was doing a trawl and he was not in a position to say whether something - whatever that is - was sent. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: In what year was that communication sent?

Public Accounts Committee: State Claims, Management of Legal Costs and Policy on Open Disclosure
Implications of CervicalCheck Revelations
2016 Financial Statements of the State Claims Agency
2016 Financial Statements of the HSE
(10 May 2018)

David Cullinane: I find it incredible that we are weeks into this scandal and we are only going back two years. That is not a massive period to cover in terms of doing a trawl of emails, letters and so on, but the Department and the HSE have different versions of what happened. Mr. Breslin is not a position to tell me whether his Department received any information regarding the memorandum. He is not even...

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