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Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Have you visited the tribunals?

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: They are not timid.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: We are here since March.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: It refers to potential.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: There was no Abbeylara judgment in that regard and we were not off the ground. It was concerned with the potential to make adverse findings.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: It was published a week last Monday.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Uniquely in the world.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Extraordinary, it is a falsehood.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: It is explained.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: I thank all the Senators for their thoughtful contributions. They have obviously reflected on this. I have been reflecting on this matter for a long time, and I worked in the all-party committee on it. I will deal with the specific points raised as I realise people's thought processes are evolving. However, I ask them to start from the basis of respect for democracy and for the people's...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Some people want to continue that. They can create as many straw men as they wish to show how flawed we are to do the work but, objectively, there are many decisions in the courts that are the law but are not necessarily just. We need to have that debate. This is a simple proposal. It does not trample on the separation of powers in any way; it simply asks Parliament to function like...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: The terms of reference will not be laid down by the Executive.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: If this process is accepted by the people in a referendum, the process to determine appropriate matters for investigation lies with the oversight committee.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: I am saying what the law is and I would like the House to engage with this and not with who said what. This is a process and I recommend it be approved. It is modern, democratic and open. I have not responded to all Senator Darragh O'Brien's points yet. Obviously legal and secretarial support will be required. On the issue of bias and the suggestions that if anybody made a general...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Why would it be a nightmare?

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: These issues are a nightmare for people who do not respect Parliament or the notion that we could have objective people as Members of Parliament.

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: You can create straw men to defeat any proposal and then one is left with the status quo. The status quo is not working. We have had tribunals of inquiry that have lasted decades and cost hundreds of millions. We want an efficient system. We want Parliament to work. We want people to engage with Parliament rather than creating straw men who will say it cannot work and we will do nothing...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Instead of that, let us try to engage in a process and see what happens. Why should the Members of the Oireachtas uniquely be incapable when every other parliament that I have looked at, can do it well and impartially and do not ridicule their members for having opinions?

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: Let us consider the role of the Houses of the Oireachtas and the separation of powers. As I said, it will not be a role for the committee to second guess the courts. I accept Senator O'Brien's natural admonition "Bí curamach", but we must be courageous as well. We have to test the waters, if this model is not completely robust, we will tweak it again but the constitutional framework will...

Seanad: An Bille um an Tríochadú Leasú ar an mBunreacht (Fiosruithe Thithe an Oireachtais) 2011: An Dara Céim / Thirtieth Amendment of the Constitution (Houses of the Oireachtas Inquiries) Bill 2011: Second Stage (22 Sep 2011)

Brendan Howlin: I think there must be balance in all of this. There will be issues in the future where people's good names are at risk and where it is right and proper for them to have legal advisers on hand but there will be cases where not everybody needs to be "lawyered up", to use the American phrase, for every issue all the time. If the very simple objective is to get to the truth and tell the truth,...

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