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Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: We will finish off this section of the meeting when we return after the suspension. Then we have another meeting in connection with Project Eagle after 2 p.m.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: We are resuming in public session. The next speaker is Deputy Farrell.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Will Mr. Cody explain what he means by banding?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: It will drop to a lower band.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: My understanding is that it is the area of EU regional development. If the IDA has a client relocating to certain regions of the country such as the Border, midlands and west region, the IDA is allowed to pay a higher grant. The amount is different for the BMW region from what it would be for the greater Dublin region.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: With a couple of parliamentary questions to the Minister responsible for the IDA, the Deputy would probably get the figure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: I have a number of questions on the annual report but I will start with fuel laundering. On page 162, paragraph 12.26 of the report, it states:Revenue does not estimate the loss to the Exchequer as a result of fuel laundering. A report published in May 2016 estimated the loss to be €239 million in 2015. The report in question was produced by Grant Thornton. Earlier today, Mr. Cody...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Is this a problem in the UK?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: What does Mr. Cody mean by "taken out"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: It was then cleaned.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Was something added or taken out?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: That is what is known as "diesel stretching".

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: We have heard lots of reports from different people whose cars have been damaged as a result of diesel stretching. We cannot quantify the loss to the State but it causes environmental problems. It causes damage to the good, clean name of our agricultural exports and to people's cars. Why do we have this system at all? I cannot understand why we have two separate systems and later I will...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: How would Revenue lose if it was sold through the pumps here for the full whack?

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: To deter smuggling across the Border.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Scotland.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Cody cannot answer my next question, but Brexit and the Border could have an impact on this matter. The essence of Mr. Cody's answer is that the criminals will beat us. Fuel will be laundered in the North, it will be brought into the South and we will lose revenue. We have moved into the area of criminal justice. We are all satisfied that Revenue cannot quantify that loss. The system...

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: I drew that conclusion. Mr. Cody did not say it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: Or wherever.

Public Accounts Committee: 2014 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners
Chapter 12 - Tackling Fuel Laundering
Chapter 15 - Taxpayer Compliance
2015 Revenue Accounts
(13 Oct 2016)

Seán Fleming: I wish to raise a few other points about the annual report. Mr. Cody will send to the committee the memo on the double Irish from which he read. Regarding aggressive tax planning, many of those companies that used the section 110 provisions bought properties from NAMA - I am not referring to any individual company - and, according to Mr. Cody, used the charity trust mechanism to have a...

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