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Written Answers — Department of Health: Pharmaceutical Sector (14 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: 193. To ask the Minister for Health his views on recent media reports of pharmaceutical companies funding training programmes and conference attendances for doctors; if this constitutes a conflict of interest; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21812/16]

Written Answers — Department of Health: Pharmaceutical Sector (14 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: 219. To ask the Minister for Health his views regarding the concerns raised in correspondence dated 30 June 2016 from the Healthcare Enterprise Alliance on the ineffectiveness of the proposed medicines pricing agreement. [21896/16]

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: I welcome the delegation, although on that point I will express some concern about its scale. There are at least 16 senior officers present. That is a matter of concern for us as a committee in terms of ensuring value for money and so on. There is a problem with that. Apart from so much senior officers' time being taken up, there are other issues with lines of accountability. If there...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Accountability for any of this rests with the Secretary General of the Department of Health. I am curious about what Mr. O'Brien's legal position is in terms of spending oversight. My understanding is that the head of the HSE is accountable to this committee, yet is not the Accounting Officer in law. Will Mr. Dempsey clarify the situation?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: It is an unorthodox arrangement.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: We need to consider why the Accounting Officer is not before us to account for this.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Generally, in situations where everyone is responsible, no one is responsible. That is a concern for the committee. Mr. McCarthy set out at the beginning of the meeting the standard of good governance, accounting, reporting and auditing that should obtain in any organisation. I am not sure that the HSE meets that standard. I did not get that sense from the presentation. I wish to ask...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: It should be a matter of extreme concern to this committee that, as someone who is responsible for a spend of more than €13 billion in the HSE, with €3.6 billion going to sections 38 and 39 agencies, Mr. O'Brien stated that the HSE's audit function and the allocation of resources to oversight were "probably significantly" underfunded. That is not an acceptable response to...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: I am not talking about the factual response. Mr. O'Brien, as the accountable person to this committee, is admitting that the HSE's arrangements for oversight and audit are "probably significantly" under-resourced. How can we, as the Committee of Public Accounts representing the taxpayer, have confidence that public money is being spent properly?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: I am highlighting it because it is related to the first question that I asked on who was responsible for ensuring proper oversight. Either Mr. O'Brien is acting under instructions or the constraints of the public service embargo or he is doing his job by ensuring adequate accountability. If he has concerns about the level of resources available for that, presumably it should be highlighted...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: I do not see that as an excuse.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: I know the witness is putting it as a factual position but I do not believe it is an excuse-----

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: -----for less than adequate oversight. I presume there is a standard that is recognised and perhaps the Comptroller and Auditor General has a comment on this. In terms of a spend of €3.6 billion, what would be the expected cost for oversight and audit? Will Mr. O'Brien speak to us a little further on the various levels of oversight in place? We heard about the internal audit and...

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Is there a ballpark figure for the cost of oversight and audit?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: In 2013, there were scandals involving Rehab and the Central Remedial Clinic and action was taken to strengthen oversight arrangements. The compliance unit was put in place as part of an overall governance framework but three years later, here we go again with yet another scandal. I would like Mr. O'Brien's views on the adequacy of the new arrangements in place and the governance framework....

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: To clarify, what is Mr. O'Brien's view now on the adequacy of the 2013 governance framework?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Is the witness saying he is confident the current arrangements are adequate?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: Does Mr. McCarthy accept that 13 out of 1,700 cannot be regarded as a reasonable number and for people who are so inclined to misappropriate money, their chances of getting away with it are pretty strong?

Public Accounts Committee: HSE Financial Statement 2015 (15 Jul 2016)

Róisín Shortall: When was Mr. O'Brien given that assurance?

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