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Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: Okay.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: Will the Minister of State clarify the references in section 6(2) to "a management company" and "a custodian"? I understand that a custodian will act as a trustee, in effect, but I am not quite clear about it. I would like to know how the respective roles of a management company and a custodian are defined. I understand that a custodian will act as a trustee, but I do not understand it fully....

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: The custodian acts as a trustee.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: Ownership is vested in the trustee but the management company basically deals with it.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I do not understand the wording of sections 6(3) and 6(4). It seems to apply section 18 of the UCITS regulations to the authorisation or non-authorisation of the non-UCITS CCFs being established in this Act. Is that a reasonable interpretation? It seems that the amendment is plucking out one section of the other regulations and applying it to this legislation. It seems to be a strange way of...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: They are the ones listed under section 18 of this Bill.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: This is a fundamental section which sets up the non-UCITS CCFs. It defines it in an entirely negative fashion. It says that a non-UCITS CCF is one that is not a UCITS CCF, or one that is not a partnership or a trust. For those of us who are not experts in these matters it is quite difficult to imagine what it is. It is an investment fund vehicle that does not fall into any of the other...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I do, because this is important. The whole purpose of this part of the Bill is to set up the concept of a non-UCITS CCF.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: The whole point of it is that it is to be regulated in a different way. This House has difficulty in that it allows Irish Financial Services Regulatory Authority to set out the form of regulation that will apply. We assume this will be a lighter form of regulation than the regulations that apply to UCITS. We are not told the expected form of the CCFs nor what the regulations will be because...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I do not intend to pursue this matter but I do not have a mental picture. It is not a trust, partnership or company and is not covered by UCITS regulations. It is not a political party. I do not know what it is.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: Managed by a management company and maintained by a trust.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: That is the cause of my trouble.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: This section concerns the powers of the banks to regulate the UCITS which are currently regulated in a number of ways. The diversification of the assets that they manage is specified in the regulations so that some may be held as stocks or shares and other as transferable securities in particular jurisdictions or in other forms. I am interested to learn how the Minister of State envisages the...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I thank the Minister of State for the explanation. I understand UCITS regulations specify that all UCITS diversify their assets so they do not put all their eggs in one basket. Is it intended to specify in the regulations that all non-UCITS CCFs will be obliged to diversify or is it intended to deal with it by authorising particular investments on a case by case basis?

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I again wish to pursue the issue of regulation. Currently under the UCITS structure investors with a certain level of assets are afforded protections in terms of the risks that may be taken with the investment. No such constraints effectively exist for institutional investors. Is it intended to maintain this discrimination between different types of investor? The majority of customers for...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I do not want to sound pernickety but in a sense this goes back to where we were on Second Stage. We are looking to create a more lightly regulated form of CCF. That is fair enough in so far as it goes but if we have any purpose at all in this House it is our duty to try to ensure that a satisfactory level of regulation is maintained. Essentially, the Minister of State is telling me to trust...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I do not want the detail.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: I appreciate that we are talking about summary offences and I assume the provisions in this section constitute the maximum sentence for summary offences but is there provision in the amendments for indictable offences? If we are talking about the creation of summary offences, these are fairly light fines in an industry where people have very deep pockets. The maximum fines that can be imposed...

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: In an industry where hundreds of millions of euro change hands or potentially are at risk if investment is carried on in a reckless fashion, these fines appear to be fairly low.

Seanad: Investment Funds, Companies and Miscellaneous Provisions Bill 2005: Committee and Remaining Stages. (26 Apr 2005)

Derek McDowell: The Minister will have to help me with this section. This is the section that essentially deals with the business of segregated liability. My understanding is that it does not apply retrospectively; it will only apply in so far as sub-funds are created going forward or if a management company agrees to do that. I appreciate that this section is intended to encourage speculative investment but...

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