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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I thank Mr. Fraser. I will leave it to the Chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I want to make a comment and ask a question. It was certainly very appropriate to hold this meeting and I do not agree with any comments about it stinking or being inappropriate timing. If this Committee of Public Accounts cannot look at the appropriation account for the President's Establishment, we are in serious trouble as a committee. I fully support the Chairman in holding this...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: What is Mr. Fraser's comment on the lack of an audit committee and the lack of audit control?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It is bad governance. It is a big gap in governance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It is not a big gap in governance not to have an audit committee and not to have an internal audit control.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: We have been through that. I am making a comment that it is bad governance not to have an audit committee functioning and an internal audit control functioning. Every single week we have this and we put questions to various organisations. It would be neither just nor fair not to put the President's Establishment through the same processes-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: -----particularly given the symbolic nature of it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Mr. Fraser agrees with that. That is great. Today we have looked at the matter and we have seen that no audit committee sat. I do not want to hammer Mr. Fraser as we have been through the matter, but it concerns me that when I look back at the previous years, I do not see where it was highlighted that there was no audit committee. I would have thought the lack of an audit committee would...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: No, this is going way back now. This is 2013. The appropriation accounts refer to an internal audit function with appropriately trained personnel which operates in accordance with the written charter, but the internal audit was not functioning, was it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: At no stage, going through 2013, 2014 or 2015, was it highlighted that it was not working properly. I am thinking in the context of the Garda, the education and training boards and the other organisations we have had before us. We were very hard on them in respect of processes and procedures. The first time I see anything about an audit committee is in Mr. Fraser's 2016 appropriation...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: No, sorry, this was before then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Did the internal audit function work before the audit committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: That is what is-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I understand that. I have finally learned that over the past two years from the various organisations. I am going back to 2014, before Mr. Fraser appointed a chair. He appointed a chair of an audit committee in May 2014, I understand. Is that so?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Roughly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Yes, but in Mr. Fraser's account for March 2014 he talks about an internal audit function, a rolling basis and periodic reviews, but that never happened.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Just wait a second. That did not happen.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: It did not happen, and that is why we are-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: Good. That is great because I am certainly not happy with it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 1 - President's Establishment
(25 Sep 2018)

Catherine Connolly: I do not expect Mr. Fraser to comment on it, but the commentary outside the committee that this is political is rubbish. We are examining procedures and processes so that we can reassure people that there is accountability. Is that not what all of this language is about? What we are finding out now, though, is that it is simply language and the operation is missing.

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