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Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: We will get that for the Deputy in a moment.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: There is the black economy but there is also the smuggling of diesel, cigarettes and other excisable items. Obviously, Revenue is focusing on that. The black economy always increases as the economy starts to grow, particularly in the early stages of the stabilisation of the home economy. I suppose it is better to have people working. We need them to work in the white economy, if I can...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: I had a conversation with the chairperson of Revenue at a very early stage, when approximately 20,000 returns had been received. I would not think the indicators at that time were accurate.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: It was as one would expect. I do not know whether any more recent information is available. I think they are waiting until the 80% mark is reached before they run the numbers. It was clear that most people were agreeing to pay. The level of deferrals, which we had expected to be 15% or 16%, was coming in at less than 2%. Files have to be returned in respect of exempt properties as well....

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: Although the compliance date for filing on paper has passed, if somebody files a paper return now it will still be accepted. The compliance date for electronic filing is the end of May. Once we get into June, it will be up to Revenue to organise the next phase, which will involve looking at non-compliance. Revenue will have to decide which of the powers available to it should be used to...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: As I said, we do not yet have an analysis but since multiple property owners have to register electronically they would be back-loaded rather than front-loaded because the electronic compliance date is the end of this month. In theory, the preponderance of people who are filing these days are those with multiple properties because that is the requirement under the Act.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: Yes. The advice note stated that those with one property could file by returning a form or, alternatively, electronically. That choice was not given to people with multiple properties.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: I told the Deputy that of the 1 million returns filed, 70% were done so electronically and 30% were paper.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: In the advice note, the requirement on people with multiple properties was to file electronically. They have another period of time to comply. My assumption is that the bulk of those filing until the end of the month will be multiple property owners. Local authorities are not due to pay until 1 January 2014. The second Bill we introduced made a series of concessions and that was one of...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: It is the other way around.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: No, the Deputy misunderstands me. He asked two questions. First, he asked for the breakdown, which I gave him. Second, he asked whether local authorities were included in the figures. The answer is that they are not because they do not have to pay until 2014.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: They will register in due course in bulk when they register all their properties. They are not included in the figures. There were two requirements. One could file on paper or electronically. If one had multiple properties-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: -----there was a requirement to file electronically. However, one was given extra time to do so.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: That is not the point I am making. Many of those outstanding will be multiple property owners because they were given extra time to file electronically.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: No.

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: There is a very high level of compliance with corporation tax. A small number of companies pay large amounts of tax. The current controversy is very unfair to the tax situation in Ireland. Every company in Ireland which is liable to pay 12.5% on the profits they earn in Ireland is paying it. It is a very tax compliant country. Many of the profits made by multinational companies are not...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: I am not saying anything of the sort. I advise the Deputy to be careful. He does not understand this and he is displaying the fact that he does not understand it. In the course of displaying the fact he does not understand it, he is making charges that could be quite damaging to the jobs of people in this country because what he is saying is in error. If I am permitted, I will explain it...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: Our tax system is very transparent. I do not wish us to have an argument about it but I will explain the 2% rate. This is international tax planning which works on the basis of people looking at two different tax jurisdictions and finding a gap in which they can take an advantage. It is not to do with the Irish tax code which is completely transparent. On profits generated in Ireland and...

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: No. This is clearly wrong and misleading. It ignores and contradicts the initial premise that the companies concerned are neither tax-resident in Ireland nor in the US. Because they are not tax-resident in Ireland-----

Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform: Select Sub-Committee on Finance: Estimates for Public Services 2013
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance (Revised)
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General (Revised)
Vote 9 - Office of the Revenue Commissioners (Revised)
Vote 10 - Office of the Appeal Commissioners (Revised)
(22 May 2013)

Michael Noonan: It is not semantics. They are not liable for Irish tax. We did not control that. Our law applies to tax-resident companies at a rate of 12.5%. If one divides Apple's world-wide profits, the amounts of tax paid legitimately on its profits in Ireland is 2%, but we cannot tax its world-wide profits; we can only tax the profits which are in Ireland, which are tax-resident in Ireland. That is...

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