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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I would like the Chairman to direct that my question be answered. I understand Ms Cody is here to represent the Department of Health. I only require some factual information, but Ms Cody is not here to represent the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: We are making a little progress. Now we just need to get to the truth. Ms Cody is here to represent the discussion the Departments of Health and Public Expenditure and Reform had on this issue, but she is not here to represent the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Can the Chairman tell me if the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform stated its officials were not going to attend?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: What happened then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: When was that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: Did we express concern or what was the outcome? He communicated that information to us and that was it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: There was no other issue.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: As a result the officials representing the Department of Health have been put in a difficult position. I do not think this is the way things should be done. I have often sat on that side of the fence, as the officials know. It would have been better if the HSE had been represented here to deal with the questions to it only and the Department of Health to deal with the questions to it only....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: I accept that. Only the Committee of Public Accounts has powers of compellability. It is unclear whether officials from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform were willing to come. If they were willing to come, was there a mix-up or an issue regarding the conversation with the Department of Health? I take it that they were unwilling to come and that we will have to bring them here.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Section 39 Organisations: Discussion (31 Jan 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is unacceptable and we need clarity on the issue. I suggest the Chairman talk to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform this afternoon to get a date for representatives to come here. I do not think on moral grounds that officials from any Department can refuse to come before a committee such as this.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I have no issue with this.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I know a bit about it. While this is not the forum for the discussion, we can get into it in the March sitting. There is capacity for local authorities to raise funding themselves. In many cases, they reduce funding. We cannot ignore the fact that the capacity exists and is often not used for other reasons. There needs to be balance in this argument.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is pretty easy to deduce.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: That is right.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: That can be discussed.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: We are far enough away from each other. It is all right.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Is it not a strange request?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: It is pretty obvious what those persons do. If whoever wrote this letter is watching, he or she should outline the real issue. It is obvious that this is not it. The person is pointing us in a direction but not saying what the issue is. We cannot help him or her unless he or she says what it is.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: I welcome the fact that we will be spending a day on PPPs. It is necessary and timely. Those two areas specifically are the most important in that regard. Can we reverse into the whole issue of national procurement guidelines, tendering and so on in some way? It is a topic which keeps surfacing but which we never delve into. There are issues here in respect of costs to the taxpayer. I...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (1 Feb 2018)

Alan Kelly: Absolutely.

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